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1/19/2017 2:07:55 AM
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For 2 reasons.
1. It's got [b]way[/b] to many bosses. It has 1 enemy/puzzle encounter and after that 4 boss encounters with nothing in between. It's not a lot of fun to constantly be pressured by boss fights.
2. Those 4 boss fights are all incredibly mechanic heavy. The Warpriest is realistically the only boss in King's Fall that can be defeated without all 6 members. Golgoroth has too much health to lose DPS from even one person. The Daughters and Oryx have incredibly complex mechanics that require the entire team to be alive for. If lose even one person, especially on heroic mode, it may as well be an immediate wipe. In every other raid you can lose a person and still have hope to 5 man the encounter.
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You can two man totems, warpriest, and golgoroth. Daughters requires 4 due to plates, but you can solo Oryx. A lot of people just didn't know the mechanics, but that's what raids are about. Coordinated encounters. Without mechanics it's just another Strike.
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I know that. I've completed over 200 raids. Realistically that's not going to happen. It will happen way more often in any other raid except King's Fall. And there is such a thing as too many mechanics. You can't just pile on a whole bunch of mechanics with an extremely long raid and way too many bosses. It makes for a poor design.
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Edited by Benzene21: 1/19/2017 5:34:22 PMIt's not, really. It's great design. Raids should be like that. Most players aren't great and don't want to spend too much time in a raid, so they hate KF. I agree that KF should have more puzzles, but being mechanic heavy is the way raids should be.
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At this point you're just talking about preferences. In your opinion that's what it should be but in others it shouldn't. In any case King's Fall is still full of artificial difficulty. If you prefer that fake challenge that's your problem. I didn't know there were people who would take artificial difficulty like the Bed of Chaos over a true challenge that's fair like Artorias. Most people I know would take VoG from Vanilla Destiny over King's Fall because it was incredibly difficult and yet still a fair challenge.
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VoG was incredibly difficult?? When it came out, sure, but so was KF. You are not proving anything here. Please explain how KF has artificial difficulty and then explain how VoG doesn't have it. KF is more difficult because it has more complex mechanics. Period. Having more complex mechanics is not making it artificially difficult.
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Of course I'm referring to VoG when it first came out. That was the point of the word "Vanilla" in front of Destiny. King's Fall has artificial difficulty because it's got 4 bosses all in a row. Bungie was too lazy to design more enemy puzzle encounters and just went for 4 bosses. But there's more. On top of that they heavy mechanics combined with the heroic modes no revives make for it to be nearly impossible to have a clutch situation if even one person dies or makes a mistake. 1 person on a plate could accidentally back up off the edge while trying to avoid damage and it's an immediate wipe because you can't get the relic or the Aura of Immortality in time. However in VoG, 4 people can die and you can still manage to grab the Aegis, destroy the Oracles and acquire Time's Vengeance, and keep the portal open for the relic runner to get out. At all points in VoG you had a chance if someone made a mistake or died. That's not even close to how it works in King's Fall, thus adding artificial difficulty. VoG= Do this challenging encounter and if you lose someone it's going to become even harder but you still have a chance to make a clutch play. King's Fall= Do this challenging encounter perfectly otherwise it's a wipe.
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I mean it's a matter of opinion but I don't agree that there's too many bosses. There are 4. I could run that raid in 45min-1hr. The mechanics were simple, even sisters/oryx are simple if you know what "counter-clockwise" means. I love Kings Fall. It's size makes it feel special, like a Raid should.
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I guess the first time you ran this you ruined the puzzles of actually figuring out how to defeat those bosses. It wasn't easy at first. Your talking as someone who's done it many times.
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Well I haven't done it nearly as many times as I have done the 2 Y1 raids but I still think 29 completions means I now a little bit about the raid. It's not like I ran it 1 time and immediately hated it. My first experience of it was that I enjoyed it. Even though it lasted 7-8 hours. After that though, every time I ran it again I realized that it wasn't the raid itself I enjoyed but just having something new to do.
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I can agree the first 2 were better. I also agree kings fall was a little off. But it was still really great.
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It's all about the mechanics though c; I have to agree that if my team was actually good and didn't mess up on any of the mechanics like totems, platforms on sisters, capturing golgoroths gaze, then the raid really isn't too difficult. But at the same time, even knowing that, I feel like a badass when I beat the raid. I came out of it knowing it was mechanic heavy, but Tbh I wouldn't mind running it weekly like VoG or CE. Also, CE was hella fun. Maybe I'm in the minority on both raids though because I LOVED being swordbearer.
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That's your preference and this is mine. I can't stand how boring the raid is in terms of design or how stressfully difficult it is when it comes down to completing the boss fights. I've already made 1 Darks Souls reference so I guess it's time for another. King's Fall, to me, is like the Bed of Chaos from Dark Souls. Incredibly challenging but not in a good. Challenging as in the BS way. Like the developers got a little lazy and didn't want to try and make a difficult and fair fight. That they just threw many difficult things into 1 boss and didn't bother testing it. In the case of King's Fall, well it seems they tried to modify it to be the opposite of Crota's End which was also a failure of a raid but for the exact opposite reasons. It was too short, only had 1 boss, and the "mechanics" weren't really anything different from a normal boss except the Swordbearer. Otherwise you just dished out DPS and survived by standing in 1 spot and only moving for Ogres. It seems they tried to do the exact opposite with King's Fall. They made it much longer, have a lot of bosses, and put heavy mechanics on each boss. Which as you can see from the way Wrath of the Machine is designed, that the King's Fall formula didn't work either. All those things I listed above about King's Fall that are the opposite of Crota's End don't make for an actual challenge though. It's just artificial difficulty, just like the Bed of Chaos. Simply put, it's not what a true challenge is, challenging and incredibly difficult but fair. Also, I'm not trying to insult any of the raids or change your preference on them. I'm simply putting my own opinions on the raids of Destiny. Trust me, I do quite enjoy Crota's End. You don't get 130 completions on it and not enjoy something about it.
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Before totems its a ship jumping puzzle. After warpriest its a maze. After golgoroth its a dildo factory puzzle followed by having to jump up into the daughters area.
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The ship jumping puzzle isn't in the actual raid yet. Any of those after aren't encounters as there are no enemies.
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Last time I patrolled the dreadnought I couldn't find the ship jumping puzzle and yes there are enemies there. In the other encounters fellow guardians are the enemies
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[quote]Last time I patrolled the dreadnought I couldn't find the ship jumping puzzle and yes there are enemies there. In the other encounters fellow guardians are the enemies[/quote] Lol. This^
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Edited by TFL Washington: 1/19/2017 6:54:09 AMYou aren't in a darkness zone nor does the mission objective "King's Fall" appear until after the ship jumping puzzle. Your fellow Guardians don't make that an enemy encounter. It's a puzzle room. Which Bungie's puzzle rooms in raid aren't actually puzzles. They're just simple and short platforming sections.
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You go through the portal and you get raid materials, so yeah, you are in the raid.
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Read the whole conversation before trying to jump into the middle of it.
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I did. You are officially in the raid as soon as you go through the portal. Darkness zone or not, that's totally irrelevant.
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Then why did you reply with that comment? I already agreed to that point with the other guy.
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Because I like to argue.
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Clearly. Although is too much to ask for you to keep all the arguments you want to have in one post.
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Darkness zone in a jumping puzzle. YEAH OKAY. That makes perfect sense to have. Make a petition for that to change
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Edited by TFL Washington: 1/19/2017 6:57:40 AMThe first darkness zone doesn't appear until after. There isn't one before which could easily have one. Also I like how you conveniently ignored the fact that the mission objective doesn't activate until the Totems. According to the creators themselves, that's where the raid officially starts.
