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#feedback

Edited by hestilllives19: 11/11/2016 12:03:41 AM
17

Proposed Balance Changes - Response to Cosmo

I haven't had a lot of chances to look at this since Cosmo asked ([url]https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/217318670?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1[/url]) for this type of feedback, but these are the types of changes I would be looking for in the next Balance Update. [b]Primary Weapon Balance[/b] [i][b]Pulse Rifles[/b][/i] 3.5% buff to High Impact Pulse (35/24), kills 199 in 5/6 Crits. (TTK 0.73/1.33, TTK Unchanged) 10% buff to Mid Impact Pulse (33/22), kills 198 in 6/6 Crits. (New TTK 0.67/1.50, Old TTK 1.00/1.50) 4% buff to Mid-Low Impact Pulse (26/18), 202 in 5/9 Crits or 194 in 4/9. (TTK 0.87/1.33, TTK Unchanged) 4.5% buff to Low Impact Pulse (24/17), 202 in 7/9 or 195 in 6/9. (TTK 0.80/1.33, TTK Unchanged) [i][b]Scout Rifles[/b][/i] 3% buff to High Impact Scouts (76/50), 202 in 2/3 Crits. (New TTK 0.80/1.20, Old TTK 0.80/1.60) 8.5% buff to Mid Impact Scouts (66/44), kills 198 in 3/3 Crits. (New TTK 0.67/1.33, Old TTK 1.00/1.33) *Tlaloc damage reduced during Overflow to 60/41, fire rate changed to 52. Allows it to maintain the same TTK, but easier to obtain at 2/4 rather than 3/3 and does so with 42 extra damage if 4/4 Crits. (New Overflow TTK 0.70/0.93, Old TTK 0.83/1.11) 5.5% buff to Low-Mid Impact Scouts (60/41), kills 202 in 2/4 Crits. (New TTK 0.90/1.20, Old TTK 0.90/1.50) 12% buff to Low Impact Scouts (50/33), kills 200 in 4/4 Crits. (New TTK 0.70/1.40, Old TTK 0.93/1.40) Low Range Scouts start seeing quicker drop damage dropoff than before, but Medium to High Range stay as they are. This is to prevent Low Impact/Low Range Scouts from dominating long range engagements. [i][b]Auto Rifles[/b][/i] Extend Falloff damage out, by at least 20%, it is far too steep for Auto’s across the board right now. 15% Crit Multiplier added to all Auto Rifles. High Impact Auto’s (30/21), kills 201 in 6/7 Crits. (New TTK 0.80/1.20, Old TTK 0.93/1.20) Mid Impact Auto’s (23/16), kills 193 in 7/9 Crits. (New TTK 0.80/1.20, Old TTK 0.90/1.20) Low Impact Auto’s (17/12), kills 194 in 10/12 Crits. (New TTK 0.74/1.07, Old TTK 0.87/1.07) [i][b]Hand Cannons[/b][/i] Remove Bloom or drastically reduce the effects so that shots are 100% accurate initially. Bloom should also have zero effect on Hand Cannons accuracy unless they are in Range Falloff territory. Increase both Hipfire and Air Accuracy across the board for all Hand Cannons again. *Change also to the perk Icarus, it now provides perfect In Air Accuracy, as if you were on the ground, on any gun, HC or otherwise. Damage Falloff range on The Last Word is moved closer by 20% to compensate for increased accuracy from the reduction/removal of Bloom. It is also so that its Range stat more accurately reflects its actual engagement ranges. Increase base range by 10% of Thorn. 3.5% buff to High Impact Hand Cannons (98/66), kills 196 in 2/2 Crits. (New TTK 0.50/1.50, Old TTK 1.00/1.50) For reference, as they didn’t change Mid Impact HC’s (TTK 0.87/1.30) and Low Impact HC’s (TTK 0.80/1.20) [b]Special Weapon Balance[/b] [i][b]Snipers[/b][/i] Reduce starting strength for aim deflection (Flinch) while scoped in from 50% starting to 35%, aim deflection multiplier stays at 1.9x. Both High Caliber Rounds and Explosive Rounds stay at 50% aim deflection (I might not be stating this correctly, but basically Flinch goes back to slightly worse than before 2.4.0, with HCR and ER staying exactly as they are now). Scope Aim Assist Values changed on Shortgaze from 0 to -5 AA, Longview SLR10 from +3 to 0 AA, and Ambush from -25 to -15 AA. This is to normalize AA between Scope choices and lower the massive discrepancy between AA on Ambush and Shortgaze and make that choice less punishing. [i][b]Fusion Rifles[/b][/i] Slight increase to base Range and Stability for all Fusion Rifles, hopefully an extra +5 base Range and Stability will allow more frequent 5 bolts and less 4 bolts. [i][b]Sidearms[/b][/i] Push Range Falloff out a few meters and make them viable at a slightly longer engagement distance. *I suspect Bloom also has a major impact on Sidearms. It’s removal will make more shots fired quickly land. Right now, Sidearms very infrequently kill in their intended 5 shot TTK, it generally takes 7-8 because shots appear to Ghost like HC’s. [i][b]Shotguns[/b][/i] Players will receive -2 Agility when Shotguns are the Active Weapon. Remove Slowed Ready/Stow time for Shotguns from the December 2015 patch (these are to discourage running around with a Shotgun as the Active Weapon, and promote Primary play until a Shotgun is needed, but not penalize you for pulling it out). Bring back Shotpackage, only now instead of changing the spread pattern, it becomes a Slug. Body Shots with Shotpackage only do 57% damage, just like Chaperone. 25% buff against Minions of the Darkness (PvE) Chaperone perks Field Choke changed to Aggressive Ballistics and Snapshot changed to Hammer Forged. [b]Class Changes[/b] [i][b]Titan[/b][/i] Striker – Reduce Cone of Lightning Grenade effect from about 85 degrees to 70 degrees. Juggernaut again requires feet to be planted on the ground to activate and be maintained. Sunbreaker – Fix Sunstrike hit registration. It still frequently burns targets without applying melee damage on hit and uses Sunstrike. [i][b]Hunter[/b][/i] Bladedancer – Reduce damage of bolts from 10 to 8 on Skip Grenades. Improved speed of tracking slightly. Flux Grenades damage changed to match Fusion Grenades. Nightstalker – Shadowshot 65% increase in direct impact damage (increases damage to 401 in PvP). Gunslinger – Increase Tripmine damage by 4% (188 to 195 + 3 on trip, 198 total if hit by trip). [i][b]Warlock[/b][/i] Stormcaller – Reduce the Range of Amplitude by 30%. Sunsinger – 15.5% buff to Firebolt Grenades (85 to 98 damage, 133 with Touch Ignite after 5 ticks of 7), but Gift of Sun build will only do 196. Add Fast Twitch to Sunburst on Kill, so Killing an enemy with Scorch quickly recharges it (3 seconds). Add a 12s Cooldown to Flame Shield, so that it can only be activate once every 12s. If Sunburst is activated while Flame Shield is on Cooldown it will use a Melee Charge, do the proper damage, generate an orb, but not give Flame Shield, and again charge Scorch in 3s. [b]Other changes…[/b] Remove Collision effects of Ghost entirely. Dead Ghost’s shouldn’t affect the game world at all. [b]Goals/Effects of Changes[/b] The goal here is to reduce overall Primary TTK, both optimally and at max, yet maintain the current equilibrium between classes of weapons. It is also to shake up the current “Meta” of weapons and shift them onto other less used tiers of those classes of weapons by making currently nonviable tiers viable again. The goal of the majority of the class changes were to remove some of the most powerful outliers that currently exist in regards to movement in Destiny, and bring those abilities more in line with all other abilities. The overarching goal here was to reduce the “closing” ability of Guardians without changing the pace of the game at all. Moving optimal TTK’s to around 0.75 from around 0.9 takes away about 4-5m of closing distance when Guardians are using Control or Boost Jumps. Making Juggernaut go back on the ground (this is just removing the change they made to it in Dec. 2015) prevents it from being used in conjunction with Titan Skating, something I wouldn’t want to touch. Reducing Amplitude melee range also removed 15m Shotgun Melee strategy and forces that playstyle down to the 11m Range (still outside Shotgun OHKO range). Reintroducing Shotpackage hopefully pushes players towards use to max OHKO range, which would now require precision shots to achieve. Another thing this would push is high Armor spec of Guardians. With a lot of low optimal TTK’s that kill mid Armor Guardians quickly, it makes players choose their Spec very carefully, something that I think is very important and makes Destiny more interesting when we have to make those hard choices between Armor/Recovery/Agility. In my opinion, these are changes that would make Destiny a much more balanced game and promote a wide variety of playstyles all at the same time. Likely Meta weapons would include Low Impact HC’s, High/Mid/Low Impact Pulses, High/Mid/Low Impact Scouts, and Low Impact Auto’s. Primary Exotics that would be strong would be Hawkmoon, The Last Word, Thorn, Red Death, *Vex Mythoclast, *Nechrochasm, Suros Regime (Spinning Up), Khvostov (900RPM Auto),*Jade Rabbit, and Tlaloc. I also see Plan C, Trespasser, and The Chaperone being very useful Exotic’s in the Secondary slot as well. The Truth will always be top dog in the Exotic Heavy slot for PvP, that won’t change. Note: High Impact HC’s could be very deadly at first, but I think most players, if not already would start using above +8 Armor so that they wouldn’t die to 196 damage. Same thing would go for many of these Optimal TTK’s that don’t require 200+ damage (which would include the changes to abilities as well, such as Tripmines).

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  • I hope I'll read this in the new december patch: "Inreased base range of thorn by 10%"

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  • I have no idea what any of those numbers meant, but it seems like you know your shit, so I'll assume what you propose will benefit people, so here's an upvote

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  • Bump

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  • Buff Tetherand Nerf Jugg. -blam!-to the no. SC is already garbage, why nerf the one thing that is usable, while ur at it,reduce tracking on throwing knives by 75 percent. Make smoke do 5 dmg per sec, reduce blink strike range, and nerf fusions, Sunbreaker and Sunsinger need some buffs. Striker, Nightstalker, Void, Gunslingee, are all fine. Wheres thatdefenderbuffattho

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  • Agreed and hopefully cozying reads this and realize that primaries and snipers need a buff. Sniper just need to have less flinch when sniping especially since primaries will be killing faster so snipers will need to think and snipe faster.

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  • It doesn't matter if a pulse can't flinch a sniper if it can kill one in just over half a second. You realize that would make it nearly impossible to take an accurate shot right? Maybe that's your goal I suppose.

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    • With a total revamp of primary ttk is a shotgun nerf necessary? [spoiler] btw I hate that 20% damage falloff on TLW. The range is bad enough already. How about make the exotic perk increase the falloff distance to encourage hip firing?[/spoiler]

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      • Reduce skip grenade damage or remove a cluster was what another guy had suggested. Skip grenades are stupid right now (with vows more so) Axiom and grenade kills with void walker should NOT trigger health drain effect (giving life back) - only void strength slaps / void bombs trigger that. Hunter should get back his stick bomb - but keep reduced damage on wall damaged enemies also

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        • Mid RoF pulses like my favorite gun, hopscotch would be broken as all hell

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          • Edited by Infamous067: 11/11/2016 9:16:52 PM
            It just looks to me that you want the hunter class buffed while nerfing the rest of the classes. Stopped reading the rest after you said nerf storm callers even more. Don't hunters have a throwing knife? Amplitude is not a problem. Quick tip: hunters who shade step can actually not take any damage from a warlock using amplitude. I know about this because I used warlock. I even tried it out using my hunter and it works. Maybe you just need to play more? If you want people to agree with your proposal you cant be going around buffing only the things that benefit your play style. Otherwise no one will agree with you unless they are as narrow minded as this post

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            • Bump

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            • Edited by Godfrey: 11/11/2016 12:58:54 AM
              hahahaha NO agree with the snipers, No agree with the titan change, no agree with the warlock change a funny fact: You are just asking for buff for the hunter class that funny because is the best pvp class. You miss this points about hunters....... Reduce 10%/5% the defence on super of bladancer super, reduce tracking & damage of trip granades, if the dont want to nerf the armor ok try use the sunbreaker logic 3 secs of cooldown. Reduce smoke granades effect (I cant jump why?) reduce aim assits of the damn arrow (I mean is an arrow or a predator missile?) reduce golden gun aim assist

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              • I'm in full agreement I only read till like thorn but I completely agree I have thorn and it's OK but def buff bcuz of bloom or heck just leave it and take bloom off

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              • You missed the point of Tlaloc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS1J3VrxnM0

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                • Edited by Chemical Freak: 11/11/2016 4:05:12 AM
                  I think the primary weapon changes should be made first and then go from there, no need to completely rebuild the game. If they buff those weapons there will likely not be a need to touch most specials. Another nerf, especially to shotguns, would just annoy the hell out of everyone. Not every weapon type has to be completely viable, like sidearms, fusions, and scouts which were never really competitive to begin with just due to the nature of their design.

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                  • No to the .5 ttk of high impact handcannons. You need to slow the fire rate if you want them to two shot. I feel you also need to mention the solar wind and angel of light perk when discussing sun singers, Solar wind needs to actually do something. Angel of light should be changed to not make you float unless you do something like hold a button while aiming such as a bumper or something. It should also grant Icarus for perfect air accuracy.

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