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6/16/2016 10:39:10 PM
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My problem with economic socialism in the United States
Ok, so the few people on here that know me will recognize me as a pretty vocal socialist. For those of you that don't recognize me; I'm a pretty vocal socialist. Living in Washington State (which is a fairly pro-socialism state) the ideas behind socialism were always held as something to work towards. This was especially prevalent in the school system (both high school and college). My recent problems with socialism in the USA do not stem from a sudden dislike of the policies it entails, or because of how many people don't like socialism in the country as a whole. My problem with socialism (and by relation Bernie Sanders campaign [which let's be honest here is over]) is that outside of states which are very receptive towards it (Washington, Colorado, etc) those voting for socialism tend to just want free shit.
Now, my problem is not with giving people things. I donate a decent percentage of my income to charity and am known at work and with friends to always be willing to lend help however it is needed. My problems begin arising upon realizing that most people who want socialism [u][b][i]do not[/i][/b][/u] share my beliefs. They don't want to elect Sanders so they can help those in hard times. They want to elect Sanders so that they can get shit for free.
To clarify, my problem is not that people would be directly benefiting from voting for Sanders. My problem is that people would be voting for Sanders so specifically they themselves can benefit. That mentality really is not prevalent in Washington State as far as I've seen, but looking across the nation as a whole (especially the poorer areas), people couldn't care less about their communities or their neighborhoods. Hell, some of these people don't even care about their own families. All they heard was that Sanders would give them free shit and they were onboard.
TL;DR: Many would abuse this system and pervert it to suit their individual needs as opposed to benefiting society as a whole. Socialism requires a willing and generally selfless society to work, as in the United States things are very individualistic these policies and practices would ultimately fall the same way our current social programs are failing.
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[quote]Ok, so the few people on here that know me will recognize me as a pretty vocal socialist. For those of you that don't recognize me; I'm a pretty vocal socialist. Living in Washington State (which is a fairly pro-socialism state) the ideas behind socialism were always held as something to work towards. This was especially prevalent in the school system (both high school and college). My recent problems with socialism in the USA do not stem from a sudden dislike of the policies it entails, or because of how many people don't like socialism in the country as a whole. My problem with socialism (and by relation Bernie Sanders campaign [which let's be honest here is over]) is that outside of states which are very receptive towards it (Washington, Colorado, etc) those voting for socialism tend to just want free shit. Now, my problem is not with giving people things. I donate a decent percentage of my income to charity and am known at work and with friends to always be willing to lend help however it is needed. My problems begin arising upon realizing that most people who want socialism [u][b][i]do not[/i][/b][/u] share my beliefs. They don't want to elect Sanders so they can help those in hard times. They want to elect Sanders so that they can get shit for free. To clarify, my problem is not that people would be directly benefiting from voting for Sanders. My problem is that people would be voting for Sanders so specifically they themselves can benefit. That mentality really is not prevalent in Washington State as far as I've seen, but looking across the nation as a whole (especially the poorer areas), people couldn't care less about their communities or their neighborhoods. Hell, some of these people don't even care about their own families. All they heard was that Sanders would give them free shit and they were onboard. TL;DR: Many would abuse this system and pervert it to suit their individual needs as opposed to benefiting society as a whole. Socialism requires a willing and generally selfless society to work, as in the United States things are very individualistic these policies and practices would ultimately fall the same way our current social programs are failing.[/quote] Tool to long to read. Opions are opinions. That's mature my attitude but yeah. Droned on! Hopefully I didn't offend.
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1 ReplyWe got Jay the politics expert here
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You can't go from a democracy to socialism. The people won't allow it.
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2 Replies[quote]Many would abuse this system and pervert it to suit their individual needs as opposed to benefiting society as a whole.[/quote]you mean what's happening now? And will always happen no matter what?
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Also, Socialism is overly complicated in the United States. There are several government healthcare programs instead of a single-payer system. There are endless ways the government can tax you instead of a single income-tax. There are too many ways to write off taxes that aren't incentivized to create healthy and ethical businesses.
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Nah, I don't agree. People would prefer earning living wages over free shit. Of course there are assholes who don't want to work, but most people don't want to be bums. They want fairness, dignity, and respect. I have faith in people.
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15 RepliesEdited by DarthBrando: 6/17/2016 7:48:19 PMprivatization; problems: 1) no price regulation--> companies charging what ever they want for any product or service valid or not real or not; real life example---> 12$ for 1x 2" bandaid at the hospital an 1000$ per stitch for sutures, convenience fees, and charging by the byte for internet connection or service 2) no product regulation---> companies could sell harmful or lethal products that harm or kill their users with no repercussions; real life example---> alcohol and tobacco and pharmaceuticals 3) companies would be free to make their products highly addictive to inflate profits, real life example same as #2 4) no waste regulation for industrial waste, real life example; any 3rd world factory 5) companies would be free to under pay their employees to increase profits, creating a paid slave labor workforce, real life example; any factory in China or Mexico, Walmart, McDonald's so yea regulation and socially accommodated established channels of practice of business and rules are pretty required unless you purposely want to increase class inequality and poverty while exponentially increasing pollution and destruction of the environment and population while at same time degrading quality of all products and services
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Edited by EarningAttorney: 6/18/2016 3:42:32 AM[quote]Many would abuse this system[/quote] Yeah no shit. No one looked at Moast China, Stalinistic Russia, Veitnam, Or North Korea and said Well shit these guys are pretty responsible and all with their absolute power and control that every govt could totally handle. [spoiler]🔫ˎ₍•ʚ•₎ˏ🇺🇸[/spoiler]
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1 ReplyEdited by RECKNECKREBEL1: 6/17/2016 5:54:05 PMKeep socialism as far away from my pay check as possible! I'm keeping my money I bust my butt for after finally graduating. Don't care about wealth redistribution, paying for no social welfare, or healthcare or for paying for someone else's education! Socialism is the bane of the hard working person.
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Call me a conspiracy theorist, but that is why the dems love illegal immigration so they have a constant voting block of people.
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Well, as a socialist you should know, it isn't just free shit and if anyone actually thinks it is, who cares, they're dumb and that isn't what Bernie Sanders is offering. That 'free shit' is still going to be paid for by taxes so you should have no reason to worry.
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1 ReplyAlthough some of you may say it's not my place to comment, as a citizen of the UK I would like to see you guys across the pond adopt more social programs, such as universal healthcare. I wish more people would realise that illness is not an indulgence you should pay for, or a crime for which you should be punished.
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From what you say in the tl:dr still presents issues with our current system. Not like enough people take advantage of the loop holes of that.
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[i]Our enemies believe that they alone dictate the course of history, but all it takes is the will of a single man.[/i]
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Commie
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5 RepliesI'm called greedy for being a capitalist, and yet I'm not on the side that advocates for seizing wealth from others. Self-interest isn't inherently a force for evil, but self-interest that can be legally leveled towards others (with force) is morally wrong.
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28 RepliesSanders campaign isn't over yet. We still have July and he's made history in this election before. Our only hope, is that he can work a miracle.
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6 RepliesSince you are all for redistribution of wealth please practice what you preach and contact me privately so we can exchange info and I can take money from you.
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1 ReplyITT: People who don't know what socialism is or that it already exists in the US.
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9 RepliesI'm curious, why are you a socialist? Even after seeing how much it has failed time and time again?
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So here's the catch... Whatever system you put in place, it will be abused. The rich will reestablish an oligarchy on the backs of the peasants given time and free reign. The free-riders will abuse any social program you put in place. It's all about balance in the end and making sure abuse is the minority. You'll never remove it completely.
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4 RepliesA logical socialist.. Are you sure you want to be here, of all places?
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#FEELTHEBERN
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3 RepliesSocialism is the road to communism
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1 ReplyTrue. But by mark's theory you need such a blatant abuse of industrialization before this can be done Closest we got to was around the industrial revolution/depression eras. Unions and other people in government offices allowed relief that soothed the peak from breaking the barrier. Should we have continued the pennies on a dollar/12 hr work shift/ child labor with NO relief. It would be only a matter of time before it happens It's happening now again. History is repeating itself. Unions are getting weaker in the main fronts (unions kept splitting and now too divided) people are starting to work two jobs again. Education is starting to have economic barriers again. Regan set it in motion. Should the next president (s) within the next two decades NOT ease the citizens, it would have granted enough time for a Bernie adherent to take the election. Hate the young if you want but they are telling us something and if we don't do anything now then it could swing far into the opposite direction. The sooner you curve your straight line the less severe the swing will be. Wait too long then we become even more than the USSR and China Also... militant totalitarianism=/= socialism. Those two failed for the former not the latter
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Socialism is great:) USA does not have Economic Socialism.
