Not really an argument though, the joker was controlling superman he didn't hold back at all. Second batman was obviously surprised superman was there, he has contingency plans especially for him but with the justice buster suit it's pretty much a stall for everyone. I dunno after reading that I got the sense that batman dropped superman.

[quote]Not really an argument though, the joker was controlling superman he didn't hold back at all. ------ He was as he is faster then light and could have literally just moved his head out of the way. ------ Second batman was obviously surprised superman was there, he has contingency plans especially for him but with the justice buster suit it's pretty much a stall for everyone. ------ Meaning? He still had it as his contingency and it failed. ------ I dunno after reading that I got the sense that batman dropped superman.[/quote] ------ Because superman was not mentally stable due to the Joker gas.

Ok we have to address that speed of light thing, yes superman could have moved out of the way but he was surprised caught off guard so he didn't. If I move in to slap you, you could move out of the way but most likely wouldn't be able to without warning. His contingency didn't fail as superman was the one hospitalized not batman. Also he took down the entire justice league.... Yes I will agree he might have been groggy from the joker gas but it doesn't change the fact that at full strength yes batman could beat superman.

[quote]Ok we have to address that speed of light thing, yes superman could have moved out of the way but he was surprised caught off guard so he didn't. If I move in to slap you, you could move out of the way but most likely wouldn't be able to without warning. ------ His perception is faster then light. ------ His contingency didn't fail as superman was the one hospitalized not batman. Also he took down the entire justice league.... ------ Ok Failed is probably not the best word, but he would have been crushed if he had no kryptonite. Also Superman withstands attacks from Metallo, yet goes down to a few fragments of kryptonite. I blame the writers. ------ Yes I will agree he might have been groggy from the joker gas but it doesn't change the fact that at full strength yes batman could beat superman.[/quote] ------ He can, but he loses most of the time.

I don't think his perception is faster than light, the only stories we have seen with that are the ones that make him ridiculously op. Remember he grew up human. Yeah how much kryptonite he can take varies from writer to writer. Yeah most times he loses you're right. But he is one of the few people in the universe with the skill to kill him

[quote]I don't think his perception is faster than light, the only stories we have seen with that are the ones that make him ridiculously op. Remember he grew up human. ------ It doesn't matter if you think those fears are "OP" they are canon. So Superman was nerfed. ------ Yeah how much kryptonite he can take varies from writer to writer. ------ Yes. ------ Yeah most times he loses you're right. But he is one of the few people in the universe with the skill to kill him[/quote] ------ Their are quite a few. But I was not disputing this.

Wait they were canon, not anymore in the new 52