[quote]But if even a single flood infected ship survived it would have all been for not, especially seeing as the receded the galaxy right after.[/quote] Not necessarily. While Halo's pulse certainly does kill Flood, it has always been described as being meant to starve them to death. [i]"The only way to stop the Flood is to starve them to death. And that's exactly what Halo is designed to do: wipe the galaxy clean of all sentient life. You don't believe me? Ask him." -Cortana, Two Betrayals, Halo CE[/i] Also, according to Silentium's epilogue, Rebirth, the Forerunners waited several years before reseeding the galaxy to ensure that their plan had actually worked. [quote]I will have to look into the burns.[/quote]Should be page 77 of Silentium. [quote]Also with Forerunner technology they simply could've slowed down time so that mere minutes to them could've been centuries to the people outside (as my early let quote shows they could manipulate time within the fractal dimensions) and just take over the Galaxy then.[/quote]While hypothetically true, in practice it's a bit different. For one, we don't know how easy it is for Forerunners to alter the flow of time in slipspace bubbles. Secondly, do not forget that nearly all Forerunner tech is based off of access keys, and specific markers to ensure that only the intended individuals (or more accurately, individuals with clearance) can access certain things. For something like a Halo shelter, that would be very well hidden and locked down. For how powerful the Flood are, the Forerunners still kept secrets from them. IE: The Flood only learned of the Lesser Ark at the very very end of the war. So late in the war, that the Flood's battle to access it was cut short by Halo's pulse.

Something else I want to mention is that I'm pretty sure that flood can't starve once they get a host seeing as between Halo 2 and Halo 3 they literally transformed high charity from this. https://content.halocdn.com/media/Default/encyclopedia/locations/high-charity/high-charity-thumbnail-708x398-bbdb0d86bcb947fbbb3da17850cbea2f.jpg To this http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080529200237/halo/images/2/2c/Flood_Charity.png And even inside it looked like this https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQTLFE-RsWtdgyLZlZLK3xVEdCHLchaj75J5B1G0p5VJq3qhHfhvw This would require more biomass then was actually in high charity, and as far as we know they never had a chance to get more. So this shows that the Flood can create more bio mass. Another showing was when they created a spore mountain. “The object rises fifty kilometers above the planet’s datum and measures four hundred kilometers across the base, at its greatest diameter. It intersects many Forerunner constructs and appears to have arisen at the center of a major city, which city is, if memory serves— if this is truly Uthera—” Bear, Greg (2013-03-19). Halo: Silentium (Forerunner) (p. 82). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. (Note I know it doesn't reference it as a Flood construct but you can check page 82 of Silentium to see) This shows that the Flood have they ability to create biomass. Also of note is that the Flood were quarantined to 12 systems for 290 years by the Forerunners, whenever they escaped to another system the Forerunners would detonate the systems sun. If the Flood could still starve, they would have at this point.

[quote]This would require more biomass then was actually in high charity, and as far as we know they never had a chance to get more. So this shows that the Flood can create more bio mass. Another showing was when they created a spore mountain.[/quote]That's a logical fallacy. You're assuming that the Flood can only convert biomass not grow their own. Note that for a life form like us, or any of the Covenant, we require dense energy reserves because our survival is based around movement and displacing objects that often are way heavier than our own bodies. Something like the FSC walls and structures you're pointing out don't require movement. They're stationary, and would require significantly less energy than something designed to move. [quote]This would require more biomass then was actually in high charity, and as far as we know they never had a chance to get more. So this shows that the Flood can create more bio mass. Another showing was when they created a spore mountain. “The object rises fifty kilometers above the planet’s datum and measures four hundred kilometers across the base, at its greatest diameter. It intersects many Forerunner constructs and appears to have arisen at the center of a major city, which city is, if memory serves— if this is truly Uthera—”[/quote]Again though, it arose at an incredibly dense and populated city. More than that, the only purpose of a spore mountain is to propel FSC spores into the atmosphere. That's considerably simpler than needing energy to supply energy to complex organs like a brain, liver, or kindeys. [quote]Also of note is that the Flood were quarantined to 12 systems for 290 years by the Forerunners, whenever they escaped to another system the Forerunners would detonate the systems sun. If the Flood could still starve, they would have at this point.[/quote]The question is though. Is a system referring to a solar system? Or a system of stars? How big were these systems? How heavily populated? Did the Flood conquer those systems immediately, or did they make constant gains throughout those ~300 years? I understand where you're coming from, but a lot of the claims you're making are based off of incorrect assumptions and misunderstandings. Not to mention, you're contradicting explicitly stated canon. [i] "[b]The only way to stop the Flood is to starve them to death. And that's exactly what Halo is designed to do[/b]: wipe the galaxy clean of all sentient life. You don't believe me? Ask him." -Cortana, Two Betrayals, Halo CE "The Flood cover more of our galaxy with each passing day. They feast on the essence of life itself. [b]The only way to stop their advance is to remove that life upon which they feast.[/b]" -Faber, Terminal 5, Halo 4[/i]

[quote][quote]This would require more biomass then was actually in high charity, and as far as we know they never had a chance to get more. So this shows that the Flood can create more bio mass. Another showing was when they created a spore mountain.[/quote]That's a logical fallacy. You're assuming that the Flood can only convert biomass not grow their own. Note that for a life form like us, or any of the Covenant, we require dense energy reserves because our survival is based around movement and displacing objects that often are way heavier than our own bodies. Something like the FSC walls and structures you're pointing out don't require movement. They're stationary, and would require significantly less energy than something designed to move. My point is if they had a limited supply of energy they wouldn't have wasted it by placing some much biomass that served no purpose. [quote]This would require more biomass then was actually in high charity, and as far as we know they never had a chance to get more. So this shows that the Flood can create more bio mass. Another showing was when they created a spore mountain. “The object rises fifty kilometers above the planet’s datum and measures four hundred kilometers across the base, at its greatest diameter. It intersects many Forerunner constructs and appears to have arisen at the center of a major city, which city is, if memory serves— if this is truly Uthera—”[/quote]Again though, it arose at an incredibly dense and populated city. More than that, the only purpose of a spore mountain is to propel FSC spores into the atmosphere. That's considerably simpler than needing energy to supply energy to complex organs like a brain, liver, or kindeys. The energy requirement would be enormous, we humans put about 40,000,000,000 tons of pollution into the atmosphere for year. Or about 110 million tons per day. In order for the flood to convert the the planetary ecosystem to a flood state within the mere hours/days it usually takes, they would have to pump vastly more flood spores into the atmosphere than this. http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/08/20/atmospheric_co2_humans_put_40_billion_tons_into_the_air_annually.html [quote]Also of note is that the Flood were quarantined to 12 systems for 290 years by the Forerunners, whenever they escaped to another system the Forerunners would detonate the systems sun. If the Flood could still starve, they would have at this point.[/quote]The question is though. Is a system referring to a solar system? Or a system of stars? How big were these systems? How heavily populated? Did the Flood conquer those systems immediately, or did they make constant gains throughout those ~300 years? Halo Encyclopedia; pg. 169 It soon became clear to the Forerunners that ordinary naval tactics would prove fruitless in stemming the mounting infection. They decided their only hope of defeating the parasitic swarm would be to create even more lethal weaponry. At first, robotic drones were sent to battle and contain the Flood onslaught using surgical, localized tactics. Soon after, the Forerunner Fleet Command considered “premature stellar collapses,” by which a supernova would be triggered by a naval battle group, engulfing a planetary system and preventing any possible risk of Flood infection. Halo 3; Terminal 2 It is my opinion that any system where there is evidence that the enemy has established a physical presence is lost and must be razed. This fleet currently retains the capacity to force premature stellar collapse; I advise that this be established as standard operating procedure for all compromised systems forthwith. We cannot fight this war by half measures if we intend to win. Going by these quotes systems are solar system. I understand where you're coming from, but a lot of the claims you're making are based off of incorrect assumptions and misunderstandings. Not to mention, you're contradicting explicitly stated canon. [i] "[b]The only way to stop the Flood is to starve them to death. And that's exactly what Halo is designed to do[/b]: wipe the galaxy clean of all sentient life. You don't believe me? Ask him." -Cortana, Two Betrayals, Halo CE It was also said at that time that the halos didn't kill flood, and it was also implied that humans and Forerunners were related. So I'm skeptical seeing as the Canon has changed. "The Flood cover more of our galaxy with each passing day. They feast on the essence of life itself. [b]The only way to stop their advance is to remove that life upon which they feast.[/b]" -Faber, Terminal 5, Halo 4[/i][/quote] That was after the flood escaped containment, where they then proceeded to take over two thirds of the galaxy in a mere 10/4 years. Also I want to say that this is a really good debate. :)

[quote]My point is if they had a limited supply of energy they wouldn't have wasted it by placing some much biomass that served no purpose. [/quote]It actually does serve a purpose. High Charity isn't exactly the most stable space station, and since it was built around the Keyship that is no longer there, it's going to be fragile. The Flood biomass was used to support the weakened superstructure, as well as allow the Gravemind to directly alter slipspace to allow quick and safe passage to the Ark. [url=https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/canon-fodder-feet-first][i]His modifications to High Charity were far-reaching, both to keep the facility functioning after the departure of the Keyship, and to better serve as a mobile plagueship from which he could sing victory everlasting in a galaxy consumed of thinking life. But even with an intellect impossibly vast and deep, able to twist the technologies of the Covenant far beyond their original functionality by application of esoteric Precursor science, the ancient abomination was unable to both conduct a desperate bridging maneuver to the Ark and maintain the structural integrity of High Charity after its arrival.[/i][/url] [quote]The energy requirement would be enormous, we humans put about 40,000,000,000 tons of pollution into the atmosphere for year. Or about 110 million tons per day. In order for the flood to convert the the planetary ecosystem to a flood state within the mere hours/days it usually takes, they would have to pump vastly more flood spores into the atmosphere than this.[/quote]I don't really see how our pollution emissions are comparable (or even relate) to FSC spores being launched by a spore mountain. If you want to find a good comparison, I'd look at fungi - specifically [url=https://youtu.be/XuKjBIBBAL8]cordyceps.[/url] It's more about the virulent nature of the spores rather than filling up every square inch of atmosphere with them. [quote]Going by these quotes systems are solar system.[/quote]I do agree, though my questions still stand as there are many, many unknowns about the 12 systems and their quarantine. [quote]That was after the flood escaped containment, where they then proceeded to take over two thirds of the galaxy in a mere 10/4 years.[/quote]Halos were designed with that strategy in mind before the Flood returned from their defeat during the human-Forerunner wars. [spoiler]Aha! You've got responses hidden inside the giant quotes! Easy to miss those.[/spoiler]

[quote][quote]But if even a single flood infected ship survived it would have all been for not, especially seeing as the receded the galaxy right after.[/quote] Not necessarily. While Halo's pulse certainly does kill Flood, it has always been described as being meant to starve them to death. [i]"The only way to stop the Flood is to starve them to death. And that's exactly what Halo is designed to do: wipe the galaxy clean of all sentient life. You don't believe me? Ask him." -Cortana, Two Betrayals, Halo CE[/i] Also, according to Silentium's epilogue, Rebirth, the Forerunners waited several years before reseeding the galaxy to ensure that their plan had actually worked. The flood could have waited a lot longer [quote]I will have to look into the burns.[/quote]Should be page 77 of Silentium. I don't have the book :( [quote]Also with Forerunner technology they simply could've slowed down time so that mere minutes to them could've been centuries to the people outside (as my early let quote shows they could manipulate time within the fractal dimensions) and just take over the Galaxy then.[/quote]While hypothetically true, in practice it's a bit different. For one, we don't know how easy it is for Forerunners to alter the flow of time in slipspace bubbles. Secondly, do not forget that nearly all Forerunner tech is based off of access keys, and specific markers to ensure that only the intended individuals can access certain things. The Flood can subvert all forerunner technology through the logic plague. The forerunners tech seem to be easily able to manipulate's time seeing as it was being done in installation 006, and the primordial's physical form was destroyed when they Iso Didact accelerated time quintillions of times over, which had no known after effect. For something like a Halo shelter, that would be very well hidden and locked down. For how powerful the Flood are, the Forerunners still kept secrets from them. IE: The Flood only learned of the Lesser Ark at the very very end of the war. So late in the war, that the Flood's battle to access it was cut short by Halo's pulse.[/quote] But they learned of it before they fired so they could have simply kept a few flood in Slipspace for safety.

Right, but that was just one example; even then, their knowledge of how to access the Lesser Ark wouldn't have saved them from Halo anyway. As far as we know, the Flood didn't know of any installations capable of surviving Halo. Even if they did, would the Flood even care to survive? The Primordial and the Graveminds are aware that weapons, even as grand and elaborate as Halo, only delay them, and they had effectively succeeded in ensuring that the Forerunners would be meaningfully erased from time with the apparent destruction of the Domain, so only their military technology and installations would be left. [i]"Like water I ebb and flow. Defeat is simply an addition of time to a sentence I never deserved, but you imposed." -Gravemind, Halo, Halo 3 "The history of all Forerunners was now lost to us. We relied upon the permanence of the Domain to preserve our record of the events that led to this point. But without that record, would future civilizations know anything about us? Or only of our weapons?" -343 Guilty Spark, Terminal 2, Halo CEA[/i] For a civilization that was built upon the belief of supporting and safeguarding life, that's a giant kick in the pants, even after they had lost everything they built over 15 million years. Welp, It's 2AM. I'ma head to bed. Appreciate the conversation though. Haven't had one like this regarding Halo's story in months.

You guys have [i][b]way[/b][/i] too much time on your hands.