I agree. Sorry i just didn't get the joke seeing as one takes alot of skill and the other takes a little skill. My point was just that people need to stop complaining about EVERYTHING that kills them in PvP. People are quick to refer to things as "crutches" or "noob moves" when in fact things are a viable way to get kills. Sorry people don't headshot you with a sniper every kill. We're not all RealKraftyy and not all of us want to be either. Obviously being killed by envenomed/vortex is an annoying way to be killed but the fact of the matter is your reaction time wasn't quick enough, your positioning was poor, or you just got outplayed by the person either landing both grenades on you or blocking your escape route (which takes skill to know where your opponent is going to run or land the grenades so that the AoE is big enough for them to overlap and kill them no matter where they run). I am definitely not saying im great or even good at PvP but i don't run to the forums bitching about how everything i don't use or get killed with is a scrub crutch. Just learn to counter play. Kjhovey you're a beast. Wasn't trying to offend just stating.