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12/17/2015 10:30:13 PM
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And another bump~
Also, honestly that buff is considered P2W. Anything in a game that you can pay for that gives you free levels is P2W. The only reason some are thinking that it isn't is because most are already high level as is. But if this were a situation where EVERYONE was at level 1 for example, the ability to bypass those levels would lead to a serious gap between players, especially with the sub class leveling because then you would have some players who have all their abilities and such while others didn't.
I believe the major reason why like half of the community is saying no is because levels in Destiny really are just that worthless in all seriousness. However, that doesn't make this any less P2W, though.
And really, the developer shouldn't have their game designed in such a way where players would feel a need to spend that kind of money JUST to bypass levels. I mean that's ridiculous in and of itself. That's straight up sinister. The game suffers in quality and design BECAUSE its built to revolve around a stupid hamster wheel mentality that serves to punish players who aren't dumping hours upon hours of their lives into the game.
Just think what this game could be like if not for this system? What the levels and overall experience would be if it wasn't being forced to satisfy this crap.
That's the real loss.
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yup. Pay to win isn't just about beating other players. Its the entire mentality that a game may be designed to make you want to pay money to skip over playing portions of it. In a free game that isn't a big deal... but in a game where people have already sunk 60 dollars? Right not the transaction isn't going to ruin anything. But the next one? Who knows...
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Edited by Orrion: 12/18/2015 10:25:24 PMYes it is about beating other players, and getting advantages over them. That's why it's called pay to WIN.
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the origin of a saying is important, but youre being to restrictive. winning isn't just a PvP thing. Any game olay advantage can be considered winning.
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[quote]the origin of a saying is important, but youre being to restrictive. winning isn't just a PvP thing. Any game olay advantage can be considered winning.[/quote] I didn't say it was just a PvP thing. I just don't agree these are gameplay advantages.
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Edited by pajama dad: 12/19/2015 7:00:12 PMleveling up absolutely is a gameplay advantage. is it minor? yes. But that isnt the point. This sets a terrible precedent for the future of the series. edit: you also might want to go back and look at what you wrote- "...its about beating other players..." youve defined pay-to-win as PvP.
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[quote]leveling up absolutely is a gameplay advantage. is it minor? yes. But that isnt the point. This sets a terrible precedent for the future of the series. edit: you also might want to go back and look at what you wrote- "...its about beating other players..." youve defined pay-to-win as PvP.[/quote] No, that's just how you're interpreting the words. In WoW, for instance, there is a very real competition for guild rankings for every raid, therefore anything that affects raiding is also pay to win. In Destiny the format for playing isn't large enough for that sort of thing, but being able to buy your way to 320 Light gear would still be pay to win.
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if your words are so open to interpretation you should look into being more clear with your communications. but it still remains that youre being too narrow with your concept of pay to win. I think Im going to mute you now. I think I'll be better off not seeing any more of what you have to say given what youve said so far.
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[quote]if your words are so open to interpretation you should look into being more clear with your communications. but it still remains that youre being too narrow with your concept of pay to win. I think Im going to mute you now. I think I'll be better off not seeing any more of what you have to say given what youve said so far.[/quote] The phrase has always been interpreted both ways. I mean, really. How can you fault me for using a phrase everyone is using? How is my fault you don't understand it? Muting me because you disagree with me. Classy. What a moron.
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Right, and allowing one likewise invites others. That's why we can't make exceptions. Destiny needs to be held to the same standards as all other games.
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I didn't say I liked it, or wanted it.
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No, that's not what pay to win means. Pay to win means in this context means you can buy something that gives you a discernible advantage over other players. If, for instance, they sold Red Spectre or some other rare weapon with perfect PvP perks, that would be pay to win. Or if they sold a buff that gave you extra health in Crucible. Or if they sold Trials or Oryx 320 weapons. Or 320 exotics. Here, players aren't buying anything except time, and not much of that. Thats especially true with the level boost. In comparison to the overall grind, leveling takes almost no time at all, and leveling subclasses takes very little. Is this a step in the wrong direction for Bungie? Yeah. But it isn't pay to win - yet.
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P2W goes across the board. Buying levels in any game is wrong and should never be a thing. Ever. The reason why this buff with Destiny is also considered P2W is because there can absolutely be no exceptions to the rule. We cannot amend the meaning of it to give Destiny special treatment. If its not alright for other games, then its not alright for this one, and it is as such still considered P2W. Maintaining the standard is important. Others not holding Destiny or Bungie/Activision to said standards is why the game is in this sorry state and why we now see $30 Booster Packs.
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It's not pay to win, their higher light level isn't giving them any advantage over other players and all of what they can purchase is obtainable in game. I'm confused by the outrage now though, this whole pay to lessen the xp grind has been in the game since before TTK dropped and ppl only complained about the quest that was exclusive to red bull, nobody cared about the xp boosts. It's bound to fail regardless, nobody is going to drop $30 for that, or at least I hope nobody will.
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But there are people who will spend money on that. That's the problem. Also, the community needs to stop allowing Destiny and Bungie to slip through the cracks with things. P2W is P2W, I'm telling you that ANY game that allows you to buy levels is considered as such. Why should this game be an exception to the rule? If the community keeps making excuses for the company or allowing the game to just do whatever, then not only is Destiny going to continue to suffer from it but its also going to impact the rest of Gaming as a result. Because then the next game that tries crap like this is going to also expect special treatment from Gamers; "Well it was alright with Destiny, I don't see why I can't do it too." Pay to Win is a Gaming Standard. Its a definition that applies to ALL games. It doesn't matter how differently they implement things, if anything resembles the P2W model, then its marked as such and something all Gamers should be opposed to.
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I don't think this game is an exception to the rule and I don't believe the community is making excuses for this latest dumb decision. P2W is defined differently across the net, the closest I've seen to a standard definition is a game that sells advantages for money or gear/weapons that can't be obtained in normal game play. You see it as P2W, but that doesn't mean it is. The problem with the whole "well it was alright with Destiny, I don't see why I can't do it too" side is that Destiny isn't the first and wont be the last game to try something like this. In fact, what we've seen in games releasing since Destiny is the opposite of that and games are including more content and giving away small DLC packs for free to avoid the negativity that's been associated with this games terrible decisions. In the end, most of the community is opposed to this, even the big streamers are recommending people stay away from it so hopefully it gets pulled,
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And in the end 1$ a level? Not worth it. 25$ should get you 3 characters to 40
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They included this spark in the Legendary Edition of TTK. How come no one complains about that? This is just an attack on Bungie. But they are cutting it extremely close to a P2W system. IMO, this is more of a scam to exploit money out of new players. It really doesn't take that long to grind to Level 25. Plus, you get a ton of experience which is absolutely required to understand and actually enjoy this game (at least whatever is left of it).
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[quote]They included this spark in the Legendary Edition of TTK. How come no one complains about that?[/quote] People did complain, but then that was eclipsed by the whole Luke Smith "throw money at the screen" PR fiasco. Its never been "ok" to do this level skip nonsense. And odds are they're doing this because of Christmas coming up. No doubt there will be some sort of event that will require players to be of a certain level to participate in and so the kiddies can complain to mommy and daddy for these booster packs because of "how important" it is for them to be able to do the event or some crap like that.
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Iron banner has a level gate, which comes back the 29th right? There's your reason to buy one right there if you've just started but consider yourself a competitive player.
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Yeah, that sounds to be what their aim is then. That and probably Sparrow Racing, having both go on simultaneously.
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Oh, please. I would LOVE to go against a bunch of NEW, INEXPERIENCED players who just got the boost through the purchase, and have no actual experience playing in the crucible. That would be a field day for me.
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While bashing new guardians whom raced too fast to 40 sounds entertaining, it wouldn't change their method for having got there and that's what the post was about. I have no qualms going against an inexperienced team but that's not what's being discussed. Also with the skill based Matchmaking nowadays that's a lot less likely to happen.
