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12/15/2015 4:30:58 PM
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What would the different be in removing trials rather than just not playing it? People playing trials does not affect you at all. It's your choice to play it. If you don't like it, then you can easily stop playing. It will be as if they removed it from the game specifically for you! The gear earned through trials isn't even that good anyway. It gives nobody an advantage over another.
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His post is talking about how Trials has created an elitist attitude towards the weapons of the game and how if they aren't balanced specifically for pvp they shouldn't be allowed to be used. Because Trials perpetuates this attitude and almost every major nerf in this game is due to Trials he would rather have it removed so we can keep some semblance of diversity in pvp and not lose our weapons in pve. I whole heartedly agree with him too. I am getting rather sick of all my weapons getting gutted every few months due to people complaining about "balance" in pvp. While your post would make sense in another thread, you come off as not having even read his post at all and just want to keep this endless loop of "well don't like it, don't play it" That idea doesn't work here as Trials is responsible for almost all the nerfs we have been getting for a few months now.
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Edited by Touch It: 12/16/2015 2:34:33 PMI feel you completely and I will admit I did jump the gun. I agree as well. But what this post fails to recognize is that the problem is easily solved. Bungie needs to focus on specific weapon rebalancing, instead of whole-game balances. The problem since day one with the nerfs hasn't been that there have been nerfs, but that Bungie classifies a whole subclass of weapons as broken, when it reality, it's a select two or three from that subclass that need tweaking. And in the most recent case, along with when they absolutely destroyed the auto rifles in the first two months of year one, lack of testing screwed the "rebalance" very badly. When they don't take the time to sit down and test the weapons they are nerfing, or are about to nerf, and instead just slap a generic nerf/buff across the whole class, it's obviously going to make some very real imbalances. I have no idea how Bungie hasn't figured this out yet, but it's proven every update that their current system is awful. To end things, I do agree with you that trials creates a nasty meta and disgusting attitudes towards fellow guardians and I even get caught in it sometimes, but I try not to. But I do not think eliminating Trials entirely is the answer. I think that the answer lies with Bungie testing specific weapons for their patches and tweaking these specific weapons. As stated, it will balance out way more instead of just buffing/nerfing EVERY weapon in the game with each update.
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Thanks for the well thought out response. It's good to see this on here instead of the constant flinging of insults most Guardians go to eventually. I believe you are correct in that Bungie needs to step up and start play testing their tweaks before releasing them to the general public. And while I personally don't enjoy Trials, I know that a lot of Guardians do, as it is a true test of their skill as a player more so than any raid. I jumped the gun as well and agreed with Sols that the mode should be removed; but after reading countless posts I see that taking Trials away would not fix the problem, only perpetuate it. There needs to be a place where people can get their sweatys on and go ham on their fellow players, it's very cathartic. In closing, Bungie would only benefit from finally separating the balance of pvp from pve. I've said in another post that I do enjoy normal pvp as much as I enjoy pve. I just hate it when a pvp problem creates an issue with my weapon in pve. That shouldn't happen. I shouldn't be punished in pve for choosing to use a fusion rifle because it got too powerful in pvp only. I shouldn't be forced to git gud with snipers only because now shotguns are lacking in the damage department for how close we get to the boss or enemies. Same can be said for pvp, people are being pushed into scouts and snipers hard with these tweaks and I am already seeing the nerf posts. I can only hope Bungie actually plays their game before the next patch instead of having the players be the beta testers like we normally see.
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Edited by Touch It: 12/16/2015 10:08:15 PMHonestly, I've heard the argument of separating pvp from pve for a while now. And I've never agreed with it. But lately, I've been leaning toward it more. I still feel though that a way to fix the problems and not have to separate the two would be to fix specific weapons that need tweaking instead of "fixing" all of them with every weapon update, as stated previously. To me, it honestly shows a high level of laziness on Bungie's part when they just slap generic updates to the weapons, instead of getting in depth data, finding out what needs to be tweaked, and fixing the certain weapons that need it. When you just throw new attack values across all weapons, instead of varying attack values to each weapon based on their effectiveness, it leaves a huge hole for error, which has happened time and time again. And as much as I would like this to happen, it doesn't look like Bungie will learn. So I do agree that the next best thing is separating pvp from pve. The only downfalls, however, would be that we would most likely get even more generic updates because they would have to do different balances for two sides of the game. And the other, which has been suggested by many people, is not even letting pvp weapons in pve, and vise-versa. The problem with that is not just having to find double the amount of gear that work for you to compete on both sides of the game, but also storage. It's obvious to some people that there is a huge lack of inventory space for the gear that is allowed in both pvp and pve as it is, but if you separate the two, then that would cause basically a need for nearly double the amount of vault/character inventory slots. I truly believe that the best way to fix these problems is to just do very in depth updates, with patches to only the most broken weapons instead of every single weapon every time with the same update values for every weapon in each archetype. That is honestly, to me, what makes the most sense.
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The nerfs aren't due to trials... 90% of the Crucible activities are not Trials. That's why Sol's post is sadly completely misguided.
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you're correct as well. The nerfs aren't all due to trials. The nerfs are mostly due to pvp in general. If Bungie could just separate the pvp from pve completely and stop nerfing my damn guns in pve I'll be peachy. I enjoy pvp as much as I enjoy pve, I just get annoyed that my favorite weapon gets nerfed in pve due to just a pvp problem.
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Oh, with that, I fully agree. PvP balancing should NOT affect PvE. That has been one of the most asinine decisions on Bungie's part.
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True dat man.
