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11/9/2015 6:25:25 AM
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Year 1 weapons are overpowered:
Fatebringer
Found Verdict
Praedyth's Revenge
Praedyth's Timepiece
The Messenger
Felwinter's Lie
Matador 64
Party Crashed +1
Gjallarhorn
Ice Breaker
Thorn
Hunger of Crota (default tracking+clusters with good velocity and blast radius)
Any of the "god roll" fusion rifles
Any of the "god roll" shotguns
Any of the "god roll" pulse rifles
Pretty much everything that you wouldn't want back in competitive Crucible. The raid weapons really don't need explaining; they got them right this time around. It shouldn't be the case that you have no choice in the loadout that you choose.
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You can use them in standard Crucible. Your argument also makes one of his points-- PvE has been screwed for the benefit of PvP.
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You understand that god rolls are still a thing, and you are simply at a disadvantage now, because you yourself can't reroll, but a random enemy will have a random weapon with god rolls. And you can do absolutely nothing against it, because either RnG gives you such a weapon, or well, it doesn't. Before you had the option to reroll and fight god rolls with yet another god roll of your own. Now you'll just get owned by the enemy, because he had better sacrifices for the RnG and you cannot do anything against it. Rerolling actually helped everyone who wasn't blessed by the RnG gods. Why people still don't undertand that, is a riddle for me.
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Nope, because "god rolls" aren't as drastic now. The only thing that reintroducing the re-roll function would do, is remove any and all fun from the loot aspect of the game. Plus; why would you bother getting any new weapons if you've got your perfect full auto pulse rifle with maxed stability, perfect scope and crowd control (for instance) from year one? It could be the epitome of weapons for you, and hence all other loot would be redundant. They have to keep the loot system in motion, or else the game becomes stale.
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Edited by Killlerschaf: 11/9/2015 1:46:09 PMThe game becomes stale for you. You don't feel satisfied with the loot anymore. It's the contrary for me. Hunting weapons for rolls, is absolutely obnoxious as an activity. With the drop rates of legendaries and the mostly worthless perks that are available, the grind is tiring. Thus I simply rerolled my Y1 weapons again and got what I wanted. Without that, I would play even less. (and I play by far less than before already) I will also disagree with the notion of god rolls not being as prevalent. This is absolutely untrue, and the current system which doesn't allow for rerolling of Y2 weapons, further helps in spreading imbalances. I detached myself from that issue, through using Y1 guns. Be it a Spear, a Matador, or a lucky roll Against All Odds with Crowd Control. Grinding for PvP weapons with PvP perks is one of the things that made this game less enjoyable. Not even talking about Crucible Weapon Drop rates (which are allegedly a bug. Something I do not believe however, given the current state of Destiny's economy). If weapons would be easily attainable and rerollable, I might be willing to use them. But praying to RnGeeZus, for a usable roll is not satisfying in the least. The only Y2 weapons I use are the Raid LMG and the Conspiracy Theory. (this whole post had solely the PvP in mind and talked about legendary weapons, not exotics)
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That's what arms day is for: you want a weapon? Wait until its package is available, then you get a choice of 3 rolls of the same weapon. It's not perfect, but it's better than year 1. This topic is super subjective though, so let's leave it as my opinion and yours.
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Edited by Killlerschaf: 11/9/2015 2:32:34 PMWhere it becomes subjective, is what you prefer. You like the grind, and I hate it by now. I am not a fan of relativism, and would probably question a person's mental sanity, if said person actually enjoys the grind, but what is enjoyable and what not, is a relative thing. What's not debatable however, is that rerolling helps to balance the PvP. This is absolutely logical when you see it in more abstract terms: Everybody running around with the same OP weapons, means that nobody has an OP weapon. Because everyone plays the same weapons, which are already at the top of the food chain, we actually have a balanced environment. (which doesn't mean that these weapons don't break the intended design the dev had in mind. But when a player with a Thorn and a Felwinter faces another player with a Thorn and a Felwinter, it instantly becomes a skill match up) Arms Day is the cheap version of rerolling, with mostly terrible weapon choices. The only 2 interesting guns are a Lyudmilla with Counter Balance and another stability perk on top and the Eirene Sniper with luck in the chamber. Everything else is pretty meh.
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But that's the thing; I would say that there are favourable perk loadouts for each person, but no over-arching "this is the best perk setup for everyone". I don't necessarily enjoy the grind either. I do want drops to mean something as I continue to play the game however. I'm more willing to try different weapons and weapon types of I haven't constructed the perfect primary straight out of the gate. So yes, it is subjective. What we see as the perfect way for the loot-game to flow will differ from person to person. I believe that it adds to the experience, since it encourages a multitude of loadouts, but that's just me.
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Yet again PvP f**king it up for PvE! So you conclude they're to powerful for PvP, yet in PvE they were good weapons to use. I say bring them back and stop screwing the game up just for PvP!
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PvP weapons should be preset, no perks just give crucible all those white guns to choose from, less to mess around and re balance stuff every 2-3 months. As for PvE, I think a lot of players want to feel badass, I like my guns to [u]feel[/u] op (but not that 1 shot kill strike boss).
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There shouldn't be "the best weapon"s for PvE.
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Yes there should otherwise the first weapon you get is as good as every other weapon so job done, I'll stop playing now. The whole point is that there is still a better gun or at least a better gun for scenario X. P.S. I have a year two Party Crasher +1 @ 296. It's still pretty good even post-nerf.
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It's not "best gun" that you're after. As of year 2, it's "best gun for me" that you're hunting.
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Edited by Killlerschaf: 11/9/2015 1:27:07 PMFor the PvE it's a Dead Orbit Hung Jury. It's not even a competition. And that's objectively pretty much one of the best weapons you can get.
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Why not? It's not like it [b]hurts[/b] anybody, and if Endgame gear is the hardest to obtain, it should [i]absolutely[/i] be better than the rest of the gear pool, in some capacity. That's game design 101 stuff, man. If not, then why even bother with Endgame [i]to begin with?[/i]
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*Sigh* Because you don't have a choice in loadout once you have this almighty boon. I complete end game for several reasons: - the raid weapons are really great under certain circumstances, so collecting them for my arsenal is fun. - the challenge is fun. - playing with friends is fun. - getting all the raid weapons is fun. - they're releasing harder and harder content, (exhibit A: challenge raids) so I need to gear up for them. - maxing out my character is fun. - some of the weapons are great, but not "the best", like the machine gun, pulse, scout, sniper and shotgun. - infusion material for my other weapons, that AREN'T unbalanced. With the freedom of choice, you can use whichever loadout that you're personally happy with in both PvP and PvE as opposed to what universally considered "the bestest one evar!!" And variety.
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[quote]Because you don't have a choice in loadout once you have this almighty boon.[/quote] Complete bullsh*t. I could use ANYTHING I wanted in HoW, yet these are all weapons that I [i]regularly[/i] used (as in, at least once every week) in Year 1; [quote]-VoC -Gheleon's Demise -The Scholar -MIDA Multi Tool -The Summoner -Vanquisher VIII -Timur's Lash -The Devil You Know -The Messenger -Red Death -Found Verdict -Felwinter's Lie -Judgment VI -Astral Horizon -Invective -Swordbreaker -Praedyth's Revenge -Icebreaker -Eye of Sol -Light of the Abyss -Praetorian Foil -Purifier VII -Hezen Vengance -Hunger of Crota -Truth -Infinite Theorem -Deviant Gravity -Corrective Measures -Super Good Advice[/quote] If you only used 1 or 2 weapons because you though they were the "only options," that was [i]your[/i] problem. [quote]With the freedom of choice, you can use whichever loadout that you're personally happy with in both PvP and PvE as opposed to what universally considered "the bestest one evar!!"[/quote] ...[i]just like tons of player, like me, [b]already did[/b] in Year 1[/i]. [quote]And variety.[/quote] GOD, are you for real? X'D Variety in Destiny hasn't been this small since [i]launch[/i], so what the hell are you on about?
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You understand the term "power creep", no?
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Power creep is completely irrelevant for this discussion. Not only that, it's a non issue.
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There's a difference between what you used because you wanted to and what you used because it's viable. Why would you use Hezen's Vengeance over Hunger of Crota? Why would you use Devil You Know over Fatebringer? Why would you use Astral Horizon over Found Verdict? Statistically, those were poor decisions. (PvE) That may not matter to you, but I think you'd find that a whole lot of people would agree with me.
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I would use Hezen over Croat for the extra shots and more damage. If you weren't missing Hezen was good, and for something like atheon where you won't miss it's much better than a hunger.
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Edited by AttilaTheNvn: 11/9/2015 1:36:28 PM[quote]There's a difference between what you used because you wanted to and what you used because it's viable.[/quote] Nope, not for me. I [i]wanted[/i] to use things [i]because[/i] they were viable- [i]for me.[/i] [quote]Why would you use Hezen's Vengeance over Hunger of Crota?[/quote] Because I preferred the way it's cluster bombs feel, and I usually use rockets for mobs/AOE/Area Denial (which is easier without Tracking, which I'd gladly trade for Tripod, any day). [quote]Why would you use Devil You Know over Fatebringer?[/quote] I like it better for PvP, and I perform just as well with it against mobs in PvE as long as Arc damage doesn't come into play, so I like it better for patrol. [quote]Why would you use Astral Horizon over Found Verdict?[/quote] Because its void, and it generally fits my playstyle better, for both PvE AND PvP. High-Impact, Army of One, and Flared Magwel work well for me, and having those has been much more helpful than Full Auto (which I don't use on FV, anyway). [quote]Statistically, those were poor decisions. (PvE)[/quote] Says who? Bro, you can focus on "stats" all you want, but if I'm getting better results with them, then [i]of course[/i] they're the better choice, because [i]duh![/i] What matters is how well they perform for [i][u]me[/u][/i]. [quote]That may not matter to you, but I think you'd find that a whole lot of people would agree with me.[/quote] Right back at you. While you and your type might have an autistic-level attachment to the "statistically" [i]best[/i] gear, myself and [i]my[/i] friends couldn't give 2 shits about what was the best [i]on paper[/i]; we played with what worked best [i]for us[/i], period.
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You've just gone and thrown any legitimacy that you had out the window. I'm using facts because past that it becomes subjective. Objectively, they were the only choice, but now that's not the case with how they've balanced year 2 base stats and set perks. "[u]I[/u] didn't feel forced into a corner" Good on you, buddy. At least I acknowledged facts to overcome the %ick measuring competition of "well me and my posse didn't subject ourselves to that bind". I'm telling you what the truths are, why people were effected by them, and the advantage of removing those variables. Be happy; now everyone has the same freedom that you apparently felt. I'm done with this conversation. This is just going to be a perpetual process of me bringing up reasons to prove you wrong through logic, you dissecting every point that I make and retorting with "I feel differently... Uh, because.", then my annoyed response. Rinse repeat. If you reply to this, I'll simply link the reason why none of it matters. Good day, Guardian.
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Edited by Killlerschaf: 11/9/2015 2:01:31 PMAnd currently the decision for the primary slot is between a Hung Hury and a Hung Jury. Well the ToM exists for 2 fights in the entire game, but it exists nonetheless. So I'll count it. Secondary slot is either a high impact sniper rifle, or an even higher impact one (Black Spindle). Heavy is pretty much always an LMG or the Sleeper (with the weird moment in which a solar exo sword is actually a viable choice. Like on Taken Taniks). That's by far the least variety I have ever seen, as a day 3 player.
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There is nothing overpowered.. its unbalanced
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Found Verdicts stats made it overpowered for the archetype that it was based within, for example.
