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Edited by SlyRbbt:
10/20/2015 1:32:08 AM
56
Sidearm Symposium
The Sidearm archetype intrigues me, a lot. It suits my aggressive, mid-distance play style and the weight of all the PVP Shotgun guilt has been weighing on my shoulders for far too long.
Here is the thing. The community hasn’t really shared any data on the weapon type to the extent of everything else. I’d like to start a discussion with the intent to change that. I’d like you to help, please.
The easy part is that our focus will only be on four models. All the Sidearms come from the same foundry, Hakke, which “provides” improved muzzle velocity.
All data was pulled from http://db.planetdestiny.com/items/weapons/special/sidearm?tier=8 and a potentially inaccurate thread https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/37h1rn/weapon_upgrades_perks_and_modifications/
Firstly, I’d like to discuss the or at least my intended role for a proper Sidearm. It is a backup to my primary weapon. It needs to be ready to finish a closing opponent that has been damaged but I don’t have time to reload or can’t keep out of the shortest of ranges without significant damage. The Sidearm is not to be used as the main damage dealer therefore perks that require kills to proc, then profit are less valuable compared to most other platforms.
The common weaknesses of all Sidearms are [u]impact[/u], [u]range[/u], and [u]capacity[/u].
[u]Impact[/u] is a tough nut to crack and is only buffed via the perks Crowd Control/Reactive Reload/Surround and High Caliber Rounds. But damage boosts aren’t where the money is in my opinion.
[u]Range[/u] is where the most bang for buck can be had and where rolls should be focused. Rangefinder and Handloaded/Reinforced Barrel are what to hunt for.
[u]Capacity[/u] is the least of your concerns as far as weaknesses go but keep in mind that the Havoc Pigeon is handicap at 12 round magazines unlike 15 that the others carry. If you insist, look for Appended Magazine in place of Handloaded/Reinforced Barrel in the third column.
[b]Legendary[/b] [b]Sidearms[/b]
[u]Conviction II[/u]
http://db.planetdestiny.com/items/view/2093303808
Magazine-15 Range-39 Stability-78 Reload-86
Aim Assistance-89 Recoil-80 Equip-66
[u]JabberHakke-D[/u]
http://db.planetdestiny.com/items/view/2651271602
Magazine-15 Range-38 Stability-80 Reload-87
Aim Assistance-80 Recoil-90 Equip-60
[u]Havoc Pigeon[/u]
http://db.planetdestiny.com/items/view/3863768569
Magazine-12 Range-40 Stability-81 Reload-85
Aim Assistance-85 Recoil-90 Equip-43
[u]Ironwreath-D[/u]
http://db.planetdestiny.com/items/view/3068424913
Magazine-15 Range-37 Stability-82 Reload-88
Aim Assistance-71 Recoil-100 Equip-54
[b]Sights[/b] Available (and what they provide)
[u]Truesight IS[/u] Stability +5/Reload +8/Handling +8
Fastdraw IS Stability +4/Reload +10/Handling +10
Quickdraw IS Stability +0/Reload +15/Handling +15
----------------------------------------------------------------
[u]Steadyhand IS[/u] Stability +6/Reload +8/Handling +8
Sureshot IS Stability +2/Reload +12/Handling +12
[b]First Perk Column[/b] (and what they provide, * for sight redundancy)
[u]Rangefinder[/u] (ADS increases range +10% of base value, +20% to falloff range)
[i]Zen Moment[/i]* (damage increases stability +13% of base value for 5 hits for a +66% cap)
[i]Army of One[/i] (unassisted kills reduce grenade & melee cooldowns)
[i]Crowd Control[/i] (kills increase damage)
[i]Reactive Reload[/i] (reloading after kill increases damage)
Danger Close* (increased reload & handling in proximity of 2+ enemies)
Surrounded (increased damage in proximity of 3+ enemies)
Last Resort* (increased reload & handling when last alive)
[b]Second Perk Column[/b] (and what they provide, * for sight redundancy)
[u]Hot Swap[/u] (readying increases accuracy)
[u]Spray and Play[/u]* (increase reload when emptied +50% of base value)
[i]Feeding Frenzy[/i]* (kills increase reload +120% of base value)
[i]Cascade[/i]* (melee kills increase reload +150% of base value)
Outlaw* (precision kills greatly increase reload)
Battle Runner (kills increase sprint speed)
Partial Refund (assists can partly refill magazine)
Relentless Tracker (kills enhance radar)
[b]Third Perk Column[/b] (and what they provide, * for sight redundancy)
[u]Hand Loaded[/u] (increases range +20)
[i]Appended Magazine[/i] (increases magazine, decreases reload -20)
[i]Snapshot[/i]* (aiming is faster)
[i]Reinforced Barrel[/i] (increase range, decreases stability)
Quickdraw* (increases handling)
Speed Reload* (increases reload +50)
High Caliber Rounds (increases stagger, impact +5, decreases handling)
Skip Rounds (rounds richochet, increases reserve, decreases handling)
Feather Mag* (increases reload +40, decreases magazine)
The conclusion I have come to is that for a Sidearm’s intended role, you can’t get much better than a Conviction II with Steadyhand IS/Rangefinder/Hot Swap/Handloaded. Let me hear your thoughts. I would like to see this post evolve and for my ideal Sidearm to change…
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4 RepliesI prefer reactive reload and battle runner as sidearm perks. I hip-fire too much for rangefinder to be worth it for me. Hot swap also doesn't seem to do anything so I use battle runner to let me reload my guns while moving away at sprint speed, preparing me to get right back into battle.
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1 ReplyEdited by ABDEL__1994: 11/27/2015 12:19:12 AMI have no idea what to roll on a sidearm. They all feel the same and feels like I'm shooting potatoes. I got a jabberhake one the other day with rangefinder, feather mag and (sorry, partial refund) , any good?
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Havoc pigeon for the fact that part of my gt is in the name of the gun :3
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It seems all Sidearms are completely similar. Can't find much difference.
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3 RepliesDreg's Promise is still the ultimate PvP troll weapon.
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All my opninion but ... I really think its because players dont deem it as a skill weapon. The destiny community is very egotistical and players like to brag about everything. Snipers and shotgunners like to think are super badass with their skills and when they bag kills. Spraying a sidearm to finish a kill is not skill in many peoples eyes. Once again my theory
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2 RepliesSide arms? People use those? Give me one time when it's actually worthy of a slot? Bad special period.
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Praise the Havoc Pigeon!
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4 RepliesEdited by Vegalink: 10/19/2015 9:38:48 PMJust outta curiosity why are so many people voting for ironwreath? I am actually just curious, they all seem fairly similar. If a conviction and an ironwreath had the same rolls, why would an ironwreath be preferred? Is it just because we had to do the horrible grind to get them?
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2 RepliesI think the Ironwreath-D bought from Lord Saladin is the best PvP sidearm [i]so far[/i]. The reason I say this is because it has Hot Swap [i]and[/i] Quickdraw. These two work really well together. Zen Moment is a nice bonus on it but not its main attraction.
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1 ReplyI love my jabberhakke, zen moment for extra stability, and high caliber rounds for more damage. Use it in PvP and PvE and love it like a child.
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3 RepliesI have a havoc pigeon with rangefinder and feeding frenzy. I also have ironwreath vendor. Which one to use?
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2 RepliesGreat post! I bought the IB sidearm but was underwhelmed, but then got a drop version with a different roll. I now have rangefinder, outlaw and the choice between snapshot, high caliber or reinforced barrel. I take reinforced barrel as in PVP that gives me enough range to kill a shotgun user before they get close enough to let rip, and just enough bullets to down 2 people if I'm being pinched. Losing some stability is acceptable as it's good anyway, and sidearm range usually means a fairly big target to aim for! My ideal roll would have been hand loaded for the last column too. I think your ideal roll will vary on playstyle, but there's definitely more versatility there than a lot of people think. They aren't just lousy hand cannons.
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Edited by Ratsandtwitch : 10/20/2015 2:48:55 PMCheck out my roll on my hunter i prefer high caliber rounds for the stagger
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Great post. :) Not sure about PvP, but i find that fusions absolutely destroy side arms in PvE. Anything a fusion can 1-shot takes half a side arm's mag (and more time) to kill. Anything a fusion can 2-shot takes a side arm's entire mag (and even more time) to kill. So basically a side arm in PvE is a fusion rifle with very sloooow charge time and only 2 shots in the mag. In PvP they might be promising for shotgun rushers, however.
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2 RepliesCould anyone enlighten me to the [b]high capacity vs low capacity [/b]sidearms? Does a lower cap sidearm actually do more damage per bullet, therefore averaging the the time-to-kill .... or is simply a smaller mag an outright disadvantage?
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Edited by Crimson Lupi: 10/20/2015 9:45:48 AMConviction, just because I like the way it looks. Red is the best colour
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1 ReplyIs the IB sidearm ad good as I've heard? It doesn't seem like it to me.
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Holy shit. Excellent post dude. I'd love to see more of this type stuff instead all the whining and calls for nerf.
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2 Replieshigh caliber iron wreath
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Edited by st0ffL: 10/20/2015 7:31:37 AMIronwreath-D 88 4tw :> PS: Second Expansion with Sidearm. No love from Bungie - no exo And no raid sidearm :/
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Anything with reactive reload
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I have high hopes for the roll on my ironwreath(titan) rangefinder, motion tracker (not my first choice), speed reload for pve, hammer forged for pvp. I like using zhalo Supercell on groups of mobs, then when it stops getting double kills to reload I pull out my sidearm and clean up. Which is why I like the speed reloads.
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4 RepliesThe problem i have with sidearm's is that if you use it as a close range weapon, the shotgun is better. If you use it at longer range (you will miss most likely) a sniper is better. So mid range is the answer? Still no, most primary weapons are solid mid range choices. The sidearm is a weapon with no place, in my opinion.
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1 ReplyVestian dynasty still feels better than all of them in PvP.
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i havent tried vestian dynasty again after the TTK drop but before... it wreck people, the recoil almost non existent unlike all the sidearm nowadays
