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10/15/2015 9:45:19 AM
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So basically you are applauding that bungie took the lazy approach to design by artificially making the enemies take less damage from year one weapons while dismissing the OP's well reasoned argument as a mere tantrum? Apologist logic is damn near incomprehensible, You must not have kids at all because a tantrum the original post isn't. Kid's tantrums never involve good reasoning nor clearly explained points.
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Edited by ISOL4TE: 10/15/2015 10:33:06 AMYou can call it lazy if you want, but don't expect everyone to take your approach on it. Yes, I'm applauding them. I'm applauding them hard as I can for making old weapons obsolete, just like they should be against this new, stronger threat. I'd be extremely bored if Destiny Year Two was just a lot of running around with Fatebrings, Vision of Confluences, and Word of Crotas again while making sure you packed your gjalleys. And I see no (good) reasoning here. What I see is someone complaining because they cant use their old weapons on the new threats, and the icing here is saying give me a reason, while simultaneously saying dont give me these (very real) reasons. No, I don't have a kid. I don't need to to spot a tantrum. EDIT: Lazy approach? And I thought the oP wasn't making much sense, you're even worse. No shit new, strong enemies take less damage from Year One LEVEL TWENTY weapons. We are now LEVEL FOURTY guardians, with enemies obviously scaled to match. TELL ME IN WHAT -blam!-ING UNIVERSE IT MAKES SENSE FOR A LEVEL TWENTY WEAPON TO RIP THROUGH LEVEL FOURTY ENEMIES
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You are in for a shock when you are the one who has to deal an actual tantrum. (My advice to you, keep calm at all costs)
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Edited by ISOL4TE: 10/15/2015 10:45:26 AMSo that's your only response yes? Nothing in response to any of the points I made (particularly the last paragraph which was directed specifically at you), just a little life lesson for when I have kids? Thought so. Cool. I guess we're done here :D
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I posted my reasoning on the main thread but I paste it here for your consideration. (Feel free to critique it, discussions are a good thing even if we don't agree) For those who don't get what the OP explained, please consider this question: Why people are so attached to the gear here? Its simple, Destiny introduced the concept of getting weapons and UPGRADING them, this involved spending literal hours of our time farming the resources to upgrade them and played the hell out of the game to unlock their upgrades. The system has proven incredibly successful... Too successful. It creates attachment to guns that feel right to us. Since weapons are meant to be upgraded by design it is only fair to think that you can carry on upgrading your old favorites. Its not a crazy argument either. Why this is not a crazy notion? The game has reinforced and expanded on the concept since the very beginning and the DLCs that followed: The base game introduced weapons with upgrade paths and material resources requirements. and the idea that each piece of gear has a "cool" story behind it. The Dark Below DLC introduced ascending exotics. At a high cost of both time and resources to re level up our progress in exchange for higher upgrades. The House of Wolves DLC also reinforced the notion by allowing us to use etheric light to make our weapons more powerful to keep our hard work relevant and our favorites still in use. It also introduced reforging for a chance at better perks making legendaries relevant too and worth upgrading. Weapons reflect what you have done in Destiny since the meta is tied to these upgrade loop. It grates on people that ARTIFICIAL limits its the only thing holding back their favorite guns and armor. We have no one but Bungie to blame for this mess. up to now. we naturally left behind older guns for new ones because of better perk combinations and cool looks and feel. Having suddenly suddenly imposed an artificial barrier to the upgrade paths that Bungie got us accustomed to in the game (for honestly bogus reasons) is the root of the problem.
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Edited by ISOL4TE: 10/15/2015 11:25:20 AMThanks for your consideration, and openness to intellectual debate. I will directly address each paragraph as a response except those that I feel countering won't be necessary. - Your first statement mentions upgrades. Yes. We did upgrade them. However a fully upgraded level 10 weapons is still, in the end, a level 10 weapon. I want you to realize something though. From the beginning, we've been able to upgrade weapons..why are you upset about this but not a level 4 green pulse rifle that you got day 1 of destiny, but found ineffective for Skolas when Taken King was out. Because it, despite how much it was upgraded, was hardly something fitting to stand up to a level 20 opponent. Similarly, a fully upgraded level 20 weapon is hardly fitted to face this new, stronger threat. And just like that green pulse rifle that you upgraded to have whatever perk it had, it is now useless in the face of stronger enemies that are scaled to match a level 40 guardian. Up until now, the level cap has been 20 and the only difference came from light levels. [b]This is no longer the case. The level cap is now, for the first time, changed - in fact, it almost doubled - meaning the weapons halved in effectiveness.[/b] - Another statement you made addresses the lore behind the weapons and armor. Gear does have a cool story behind it. Which is why I still have plenty of year 1 sets in my storage. The stories, the lore behind them, for example the lore following Dredgen Yor, intrigue and fascinate me. That does not change their effectiveness however. That's why I had to dismantle a lot of gear too. I was particularly VERY UPSET when I realized it was time to dismantle my Echo 33 (look it up, for some reason the lore of that really resonated with me), but I understood that it was just not viable to keep anymore. And again, I point back to the green pulse rifle, which also had a story behind it, yet you dismantle anyways. - "Honest bogus reasons" is another thing I'm going to tackle. I already explained the VIABLE, PHYSICAL reason for limitations (the HUGE level jump). But I'll also explain it from the lore perspective. Up till now, those weapons are what we've used to keep the city safe. We've taken them against the Vex minds and the Cabal might. We've destroyed Hive gods and Fallen armies. However, this threat that Oryx brings is like nothing seen ever before. He can destroy one of the strongest cabal bases in a matter of seconds, vanquish the entire Awoken armada with a single blast from his ship, and take - literally- anything and anyone he wants except those shielded by the light. And to combat him, our guardians had to evolve. We went from being on top, running through everything the game had to offer - nightfalls, weeklys, raids, prison - we were on top of it all. Then the Taken arrived, and we were suddenly so weak in comparison. We had to go from learning about the taken and running, ESCAPING, from the new threat, to GROWING, and working out a means to counterattack. Can you imagine how SHARPLY the growth would be cut if we just went in there with year one, level 20 weapons to fight him? They enforced that we had to grow in every way to fight this threat. Our weapons, our armors, even our very techniques (subclasses) had to evolve to stand a chance. And then, we climbed our way back to the top with a reminder - you know what? There's going to be a bigger threat, somewhere out there in the universe, that makes even our evolved guardians seem weak in comparison. We will always have to evolve. That's the only way to protect what is left of the traveller's light and our last safe haven. TL;DR - that stuff was top shit for year 1, year 2 is stronger and we had to evolve to deal with it, because that is what the huge level gap is manifested in lore form. Again, I ask you, in what universe is a a level 20 weapon supposed to be effective against enemies scaled to level 40 guardians?
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Edited by AlexisRivera: 10/15/2015 1:09:34 PMI won't disagree with the level jump argument, It kinda bugs me though. Mainly because it goes straight from 20 to 40 (Sloppy design) As people in the beginning found guns for various levels all the way up to 20 so the level of guns does not follow more natural progression when it jumped to 40. Level of the weapon was a simple guardian level requirement before being able to equip a weapon but never had much correlation with power levels after the TDB and HoW failed to increase the level requirement. Its simply too jarring and could have been addressed more naturally. This was also reinforced by both TDB and HoW since our level 20 weapons murdered everything all the way up to level 35 mobs so a disconnect from the level 20 of our weapons simply happened. I think its just rather hard to see the weapon requirement to equip weapons bumped to 40 arbitrarily after two DLCs that upped the level cap without bother ring with the weapon level requirements. (At least from a design standpoint) it would likely have gone much better with the players to have a more natural progression to help us transition more smoothly from the "old" guns to the statistically more powerful TTK endgame level ones. Basically guns requiring levels from maybe 22-24-26-all the way up to level 40 with actual correlating levels of attack to their level requirements. Perhaps it has to do with the way the leveling system was suddenly redesigned. It simply has been too unnecessarily rough. Thanks for taking your time to read my replies and for presenting valid counterarguments.
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Nice to know I'm not alone, here. Thanks, bud. :P
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No problem, thanks for posting a well reasoned argument it was well worth reading.
