So basically you are applauding that bungie took the lazy approach to design by artificially making the enemies take less damage from year one weapons while dismissing the OP's well reasoned argument as a mere tantrum? Apologist logic is damn near incomprehensible, You must not have kids at all because a tantrum the original post isn't. Kid's tantrums never involve good reasoning nor clearly explained points.

You can call it lazy if you want, but don't expect everyone to take your approach on it. Yes, I'm applauding them. I'm applauding them hard as I can for making old weapons obsolete, just like they should be against this new, stronger threat. I'd be extremely bored if Destiny Year Two was just a lot of running around with Fatebrings, Vision of Confluences, and Word of Crotas again while making sure you packed your gjalleys. And I see no (good) reasoning here. What I see is someone complaining because they cant use their old weapons on the new threats, and the icing here is saying give me a reason, while simultaneously saying dont give me these (very real) reasons. No, I don't have a kid. I don't need to to spot a tantrum. EDIT: Lazy approach? And I thought the oP wasn't making much sense, you're even worse. No shit new, strong enemies take less damage from Year One LEVEL TWENTY weapons. We are now LEVEL FOURTY guardians, with enemies obviously scaled to match. TELL ME IN WHAT -blam!-ING UNIVERSE IT MAKES SENSE FOR A LEVEL TWENTY WEAPON TO RIP THROUGH LEVEL FOURTY ENEMIES

You are in for a shock when you are the one who has to deal an actual tantrum. (My advice to you, keep calm at all costs)

So that's your only response yes? Nothing in response to any of the points I made (particularly the last paragraph which was directed specifically at you), just a little life lesson for when I have kids? Thought so. Cool. I guess we're done here :D

I posted my reasoning on the main thread but I paste it here for your consideration. (Feel free to critique it, discussions are a good thing even if we don't agree) For those who don't get what the OP explained, please consider this question: Why people are so attached to the gear here? Its simple, Destiny introduced the concept of getting weapons and UPGRADING them, this involved spending literal hours of our time farming the resources to upgrade them and played the hell out of the game to unlock their upgrades. The system has proven incredibly successful... Too successful. It creates attachment to guns that feel right to us. Since weapons are meant to be upgraded by design it is only fair to think that you can carry on upgrading your old favorites. Its not a crazy argument either. Why this is not a crazy notion? The game has reinforced and expanded on the concept since the very beginning and the DLCs that followed: The base game introduced weapons with upgrade paths and material resources requirements. and the idea that each piece of gear has a "cool" story behind it. The Dark Below DLC introduced ascending exotics. At a high cost of both time and resources to re level up our progress in exchange for higher upgrades. The House of Wolves DLC also reinforced the notion by allowing us to use etheric light to make our weapons more powerful to keep our hard work relevant and our favorites still in use. It also introduced reforging for a chance at better perks making legendaries relevant too and worth upgrading. Weapons reflect what you have done in Destiny since the meta is tied to these upgrade loop. It grates on people that ARTIFICIAL limits its the only thing holding back their favorite guns and armor. We have no one but Bungie to blame for this mess. up to now. we naturally left behind older guns for new ones because of better perk combinations and cool looks and feel. Having suddenly suddenly imposed an artificial barrier to the upgrade paths that Bungie got us accustomed to in the game (for honestly bogus reasons) is the root of the problem.

Thanks for your consideration, and openness to intellectual debate. I will directly address each paragraph as a response except those that I feel countering won't be necessary. - Your first statement mentions upgrades. Yes. We did upgrade them. However a fully upgraded level 10 weapons is still, in the end, a level 10 weapon. I want you to realize something though. From the beginning, we've been able to upgrade weapons..why are you upset about this but not a level 4 green pulse rifle that you got day 1 of destiny, but found ineffective for Skolas when Taken King was out. Because it, despite how much it was upgraded, was hardly something fitting to stand up to a level 20 opponent. Similarly, a fully upgraded level 20 weapon is hardly fitted to face this new, stronger threat. And just like that green pulse rifle that you upgraded to have whatever perk it had, it is now useless in the face of stronger enemies that are scaled to match a level 40 guardian. Up until now, the level cap has been 20 and the only difference came from light levels. [b]This is no longer the case. The level cap is now, for the first time, changed - in fact, it almost doubled - meaning the weapons halved in effectiveness.[/b] - Another statement you made addresses the lore behind the weapons and armor. Gear does have a cool story behind it. Which is why I still have plenty of year 1 sets in my storage. The stories, the lore behind them, for example the lore following Dredgen Yor, intrigue and fascinate me. That does not change their effectiveness however. That's why I had to dismantle a lot of gear too. I was particularly VERY UPSET when I realized it was time to dismantle my Echo 33 (look it up, for some reason the lore of that really resonated with me), but I understood that it was just not viable to keep anymore. And again, I point back to the green pulse rifle, which also had a story behind it, yet you dismantle anyways. - "Honest bogus reasons" is another thing I'm going to tackle. I already explained the VIABLE, PHYSICAL reason for limitations (the HUGE level jump). But I'll also explain it from the lore perspective. Up till now, those weapons are what we've used to keep the city safe. We've taken them against the Vex minds and the Cabal might. We've destroyed Hive gods and Fallen armies. However, this threat that Oryx brings is like nothing seen ever before. He can destroy one of the strongest cabal bases in a matter of seconds, vanquish the entire Awoken armada with a single blast from his ship, and take - literally- anything and anyone he wants except those shielded by the light. And to combat him, our guardians had to evolve. We went from being on top, running through everything the game had to offer - nightfalls, weeklys, raids, prison - we were on top of it all. Then the Taken arrived, and we were suddenly so weak in comparison. We had to go from learning about the taken and running, ESCAPING, from the new threat, to GROWING, and working out a means to counterattack. Can you imagine how SHARPLY the growth would be cut if we just went in there with year one, level 20 weapons to fight him? They enforced that we had to grow in every way to fight this threat. Our weapons, our armors, even our very techniques (subclasses) had to evolve to stand a chance. And then, we climbed our way back to the top with a reminder - you know what? There's going to be a bigger threat, somewhere out there in the universe, that makes even our evolved guardians seem weak in comparison. We will always have to evolve. That's the only way to protect what is left of the traveller's light and our last safe haven. TL;DR - that stuff was top shit for year 1, year 2 is stronger and we had to evolve to deal with it, because that is what the huge level gap is manifested in lore form. Again, I ask you, in what universe is a a level 20 weapon supposed to be effective against enemies scaled to level 40 guardians?

Nice to know I'm not alone, here. Thanks, bud. :P

[quote]As with any EVOLVING game, old items become obsolete to make way for new ones. I can't imagine how hilarious it would be if someone playing a different MMO like Guild Wars would complain about not being able to use their level 2 stick in a level 20 area.[/quote] The reason I prefaced my post as I did was to prevent shitty, false equivalences like this. I don't care what other games do, because Destiny [i]isn't[/i] those games; it's DESTINY. Destiny is, first and foremost, an FPS. As such, comparing weapons choices between it and most "MMOs" is ungrounded, because while weapons in a game like Guild Wars are little more than "Stat Sticks" that change how powerful you mouse clicks are, weapons in Destiny actually have an effect of [i]how you physically play the game[/i]. So, again; without comparing it to OTHER games, give me a reason why Year 1 can't be Infused. Because, as far as I can tell, there isn't.

Destiny falls in the same genre as them moron. Especially in the way of loot. What, you think Destiny is a genre now? -blam!-ing lmfao. Its a FPS but this pertains to LOOT which is derived from the system of MMOs

It has a mmo-ish loot system, yes, but the [i]gameplay[/i] is purely FPS. And, you insist on comparing it to [i]other games[/i] that fall under similar genres? Fine. Destiny also falls into the same category as Halo, CoD, Battlefield, etc., so by YOUR logic, shouldn't we base Destiny's design after [i]those[/i] games, too? If any of those games started removing guns in DLCs, it would have [i]unbelievably negative results[/i], so, clearly, Destiny should keep all gear at the same level. ^ Yes, that's a stupid argument, but so is [i]yours,[/i] for the same reason; it makes the mistake of using [i]other[/i] games as examples, which is the whole point of my post. And, you still haven't given me a reason why Year 1 [i]needs[/i] to be left behind, other than "other games do it." ;) Are you gonna use your brain, or what?

No it doesn't cuz games like Halo, CoD, and Battlefield don't have loot, so your argument is invalid since the topic at hand here is pertaining to loot. Derp. I'm comparing it to MMO because the topic you have issue with, which is of loot - not gamplay - stems from the MMO system. Derp again. And it needs to be left behind because we've gone way past it already, as I mentioned, you're like a baby throwing a tantrum about a level 2 stick in a place with level 20 spears. More derp, you're so derpy. I don't want to use my brain more than this considering your brain can't even keep up with this amount. :(

There is a better example that fits destiny like a glove, borderlands. It has: story missions quests loot (Seriously it has TONS of loot) leveling system subclass skills supers vehicles and most importantly it also plays entirely as a FPS game that is co-op by nature. The reason we scoff at MMO comparisons is the scope, you are comparing a game with a seriously limited amount of content with games that are massive in content by default there it only makes sense that some gear gets left behind since there is often thousands of weapons in the game.

[quote]I'm comparing it to MMO because the topic you have issue with, which is of loot - not gamplay[/quote] No, my issues are very firmly grounded in [i]gameplay[/i]. In this case, though, my gear of choice (which has the [i]direct[/i] impact on my gameplay) is unfortunately an inescapable result [i]of[/i] the loot system (which therefore has an [i]indirect[/i] impact on my gameplay). So, yes, I take issue with the loot system, but my main annoyances stem from how my gear is treated [i]after[/i] I've already acquired it...

Dude... The amount you type "derp" .... You have a very weak argument, your post barely makes sense.

Actually his argument is the most intellectually sound one here. He could probably cool off a bit with the jabs at OP and responders but you can't call him stupid

I didnt... so whos actually the stupid one?

Still you, don't worry