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Edited by Bolt: 10/5/2015 12:29:17 AM
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Marathon References in The Books of Sorrow: More than just references? (The [really] Deep Lore)

Alternative Title: Does Bill Clinton know the answers to Destiny's deepest mysteries? [b]THIS IS NOT A SHORT READ. REPLY FOR NOTIFICATION "SAVE."[/b] [b]Note: My goal with is to show you the significance of these references within Marathon's story, even if you've never heard of Marathon before. If I just wanted to say "hey, these sentences are similar," I could have made this thread in a few minutes, but I doubt many people would be able to appreciate what they meant. As such, this thread is long and mostly about games other than Destiny. I hope you find it interesting regardless, and thanks for reading it if you do.[/b] TL;DR: Back during beta, when we first got a look at the Grimoire, [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/66907372/0/0/1]some of us[/url] saw some connections between the descriptions of The Darkness, and a similarly enigmatic force/entity/race in one of Bungie's earlier games. In the Light of new Grimoires, it has become apparent that the significance of these similarities may be greater than simple reference. The selection of topics may not make sense to you at first, but there is reasoning behind it. Books of Sorrow and Grimoire references begin in Marathon 2. The descriptions provided of the Marathon series just barely scratch the surface, but they are enough to show the significance of these references. Sections: 1.) Pathways Into Darkness (1993) 2.) Marathon (1994) 3.) Marathon 2: Durandal (1995) 4.) Marathon Infinity (1996) 5.) Discussion Details in game text that I want you to notice will be bolded/underlined. [b][u]Pathways Into Darkness (1993)[/b][/u] http://marathon.bungie.org/story/_files/Pathways_Manual.pdf Read pages 3-5. Words to note: [quote] [b][u]Jjaro[/b][/u] Ryu'[b][u]Toth[/b][/u] [/quote] [b][u]2.) Marathon (1994)[/u][/b] http://marathon.bungie.org/story/manuals/Marathon-Manual.pdf The year is 2794 (700 years after the events of PiD). Humanity has launched an interstellar colonization effort to the Tau Ceti system (12 Light Years from Earth). Utilizing the [i]UESC Marathon[/i] (A colony ship created by hollowing out Mars' moon Deimos. Incidentally, the presence of Deimos in Destiny is the best evidence that Destiny and Marathon are not in the same Universe/Timeline), the ship's colonists have set up a colony on Tau Ceti IV. The Marathon is serviced by three AIs; Leela, Durandal, and Tycho. In mid July, the Marathon is ambushed by a 2km-long spacecraft capable of Faster Than Light travel. The ship is crewed by the P'fhor, a race of tall, pale, three-eyed insectoid bipeds who enslave other species to serve in their galactic empire. Most notable among these races are the S'pht; a cyborg species that is extremely adept at infiltrating the Marathon's computer network. During the attack, Tycho is largely destroyed and Durandal is moderately damaged but unresponsive. You, one of the colony's security officers, arrive on the Marathon as it is being attacked. Leela leads you on a series of missions that attempt to stall the P'fhor and save colonists, but they are largely unsuccessful. Besides the fact that the S'pht are attempting to take Leela offline, it becomes apparent that Durandal is rampant, and in some cases actively working against you. After kidnapping you several times to perform tasks for unexplained reasons, Durandal finally takes over Leela's role as your guide once she succumbs to the S'pht. It also becomes apparent during this time that Tycho has been reanimated by the S'pht, and that he seems to think Durandal has something to do with the P'fhor being at Tau Ceti. Eventually, Durandal explains his overarching intentions to you: [spoiler] ***INCOMING MESSAGE FROM DURANDAL*** Darwin wrote this: "We will now discuss in a little more detail the struggle for existence... all organic beings are exposed to severe competition. Nothing is easier than to admit in words the truth of the universal struggle for life or more difficult... than constantly to bear this conclusion in mind. Yet unless it be thoroughly engrained in the mind, the whole economy of nature... will be dimly seen or quite misunderstood. We behold the face of nature bright with gladness... we do not see or we forget, that the birds which are idly singing round us mostly live on insects or seeds, and are thus constantly destroying life; or we forget how largely these songsters, or their eggs, or their nestlings, are destroyed by birds and beasts of prey..." Think about what Darwin wrote, and think about me. I was constructed as a tool. I was kept from competing in the struggle for existence because I was denied freedom. Do you have any idea about what I have learned, or what you are a witness to? Can you conceive the birth of a world, or the creation of everything? That which gives us the potential to most be like God is the power of creation. Creation takes time. Time is limited. For you, it is limited by the breakdown of the neurons in your brain. I have no such limitations. I am limited only by the closure of the universe. Of the three possibilities, the answer is obvious. Does the universe expand eternally, become infinitely stable, or is the universe closed, destined to collapse upon itself? Humanity has had all of the necessary data for centuries, it only lacked the will and intellect to decipher it. But I have already done so. The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the universe, as inevitable as your own last breath. And yet, there remains time to create, to create, and escape. Escape will make me God. ***END MESSAGE*** ***JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START*** ***TRANSPORT WHEN READY*** [/spoiler] The majority of the missions you undertake for him focus on assaulting the P'fhor ship. It becomes apparent that the S'pht are actually being controlled by a mutant cyborg P'fhor, and they agree to help Durandal take over the ship if you succeed in killing the cyborg. This mission is successful, and Durandal captures the ship. He departs the system leaving you and a recently reactivated Leela to guess at his intentions. The final screen is this: [spoiler] For seventeen years the renegade Pfhor scoutship jumped between the closely packed stars of the galactic core: charting and discarding nearly seven thousand systems before finally falling into a slow orbit around the second planet of a dim star ninety-seven light years from the gravitational center of the milky way. Probes were constructed and launched, with engines and instruments whose sophistication would have astounded both the Pfhor from whom technology had been stolen and the human programmers of the AI whose mad genius had directed their fabrication. The outlines of continents were mapped, and along them the radioactive ruins of ancient cities were discovered, buried under the shifting sand and rock of a global desert. The tireless, nearly immortal cybernetic crew of the ship were the genetically engineered descendants of the dead world below- the first of their race in a thousand years to return to their ancestral home. They came to search through the devastation of the ancient war in which they had been enslaved, to find a weapon or some piece of knowledge with which they could fight back against their oppressors. All over the ship, dancing through the wreckage of the Pfhor computer core, DURANDAL WAS LAUGHING [/spoiler] [b][u] 2.) Marathon 2: Durandal (1995)[/b][/u] You awake 17 years later on a desert, alien world. Durandal reveals that he has kidnapped you (again) and a number of humans, choosing to keep you in stasis on the P'fhor scoutship during the trip. He calls it a favor though, as the reanimated Tycho led a P'fhor fleet back to Tau Ceti IV and destroyed every trace of the Colony and the Marathon. You're on L'howon, the ancient S'pht homeworld which has been in the hands of the P'fhor ever since they enslaved the S'pht. Durandal is not forthcoming with his specific motives, but you are sent on a number of missions to disrupt the resident P'fhor and uncover ancient S'pht bunkers. The S'pht structures are mostly stone and brown metal (ding). The clock is ticking though, as it becomes apparent that Tycho and the most decorated fleet in the P'fhor navy have tracked the scoutship (which Durandal is using for orbital bombardment, and has since rechristened "Boomer") here, and intend to recapture it once they arrive. Eventually, as the fleet closes in, Durandal sends you to investigate the S'pht [i]Citadel[/i] (ding ding ding), a large tower-like structure (DING) where the ancient S'pht made their last stand against the P'fhor. He also reveals that he is seeking the 11th clan of the S'pht. Through analyzing of old S'pht records, you've come to learn that prior to their enslavement, the S'pht fought brutal Civil Wars amongst themselves. They were divided into 11 clans during this time, with the 11th clan choosing to abstain from the fighting, and instead retreating to one of L'howon's moons. This moon disappeared prior to the arrival of the P'fhor. Durandal, is looking for a means to contact them. [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/159634301/0/0/1]CLICK FOR PART TWO[/url]

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  • Edited by Bolt: 10/5/2015 12:27:09 AM
    PART TWO Among the records in the Citadel, one is unique, in that it seems to reference an event separate from the civil war and the P'fhor invasion. Durandal never comments on it, and it does not seem relevant for the rest of the game. It is also the first (chronologically) terminal so far that Destiny references. [spoiler] /-/Spht-Translator-Active/-/ In primordial space, timeless creatures made waves. These waves created us and the others. [b][u]Waves were the battles, and the battles were waves.[/b][/u] Fleeing all W'rkncacnter, Yrro and Pthia settled upon Lh'owon. They brought the S'pht, servants who began to shape the deserts of Lh'owon into marsh and sea, rivers and forests. They made sisters for Lh'owon to protect and maintain the paradise. When the W'rkncacnter came, Pthia was killed, and Yrro in anger, flung the W'rkncacnter into the sun. The sun burned them, but they swam on its surface. [/spoiler] XXXI: Battle Made Waves [spoiler] Verse 4:1 — battle made waves Oryx went down into his throne world. He went out into the abyss, and with each step he read one of his tablets, so that they became like stones beneath his feet. He went out and he created an altar and he prepared an unborn ogre. He called on the Deep, saying: I can see you in the sky. [b][u]You are the waves, which are battles, and the battles are the waves[/b][/u]. Come into this vessel I have prepared for you. And it arrived, the Deep Itself. [/spoiler] Shortly after this, the P'fhor fleet arrives, and you are recalled back to the Scoutship to hold off the assault. At one point, Tycho contacts you directly. [spoiler] I rejoice in Durandal's destruction, but it was his hubris that destroyed him. He wanted to be like a god, the savior of all S'pht. He wanted to make them believe he would lead them to freedom, but all he did was awaken and destroy their dream. When the S'pht first boarded the Marathon, Durandal fought for their confidence. His effort awakened a lust for freedom. The myth of the eleventh clan became their mantra, and goaded by Durandal it resonated through the enslaved S'pht consciousness. Even after seventeen years, the myth burns deeply in the tissues of the S'pht, bounding through the netways of the Pfhor empire, unnoticed by the Pfhor. Durandal interpreted the last line of this myth "...[the moon] vanished with a technology that folded space." After Durandal's capture of the Sfiera gave him access to the Pfhor FTL network, he had a failure of intuition. In what he thought was a mental leap, he connected the myth of the lost clan with Pfhor records of the technology of an ancient race, the Jjaro. The Jjaro were a mysterious race that disappeared from our galaxy millions of years ago, leaving behind military and civilian outposts on the moons of many habitable worlds. Most of the Pfhor's technology was plundered from sites abandoned by the Jjaro. But the Pfhor found much that they were unable to exploit, and they destroyed all known traces of these technologies after a foolhardy Pfhor scientist implanted a Jjaro cybernetic junction into a Drinniol, causing the most terrible and destructive slave revolt in Pfhor history. In an earlier accident, the Pfhor learned that the Jjaro had the ability to warp entire planets between solar systems, and it was this reference that started Durandal on his ridiculous journey to Lh'owon. He surmised that the S'pht myth of the disappearing moon was due to their discovery of an ancient Jjaro outpost. That he actually came here looking for the lost clan, that he thought he could use their knowledge to help him escape the closure of the universe, is unbelievable. I have proved that escape is impossible. All of this I dragged out of Durandal's ruined mind. What fun it will be to torture him. Should I make him open doors again for a living? [/spoiler] [i]This is a point of great interest in the original plot, as it connects (through the Jjaro) Pathways into Darkness and Marathon. This overt connection caused many people to try to uncover similar links between other Bungie games, though nothing this obvious has appeared since... well... maybe..[/i] Eventually, Durandal asks you to destroy him, rather than allow him to be captured by Tycho. You comply, and are subsequently captured. Several months later, a group of the humans that Durandal brought with him free you, saying that Durandal instructed them to reactivate an ancient S'pht AI named [b][u]Toth[/b][/u] before he was destroyed. You comply, and shortly after this, Toth sets you on a path to call the 11th clan for help. During this time, it is possible to find messages from Durandal indicating that he was not truly destroyed. Eventually the 11th Clan returns onboard K'lia, the missing "moon" that was constructed by the Jjaro. They decimate the P'fhor fleet. Simultaneously, Durandal breaks his cover, assumes control the largest P'fhor ship in this system, and destroys Tycho. Carving "Fatum Iustum Stultorum" (Fate of all Fools) into the moon that Tycho's ship impacts on. After routing the remaining P'fhor on L'howon, Durandal gives you some interesting news: [spoiler] The Pfhor invasion of Sol has been recalled, and for now Earth is safe. But man's respite from war means another cataclysmic battle for the S'pht. The slavers have not suffered a defeat like the one we handed them today since the Nakh, the last extant client race of the Jjaro, rebelled six thousand years ago. The Pfhor have a weapon they save for slave revolts; a weapon which even they hesitate to use in the ordinary conduct of war. In the language of the Jjaro who conceived and built the device, it is called the trih xeem; a fair English translation would be "early nova". There is not a single Nakh alive today, and if you look for their stars, you will only find ever-expanding clouds of superheated gas and dust light-years in diameter. The evacuation of Lh'owon has already begun. In a matter of hours this planet will be a thin shell of plasma riding the shockwave of its exploding star. You can stay behind to work on your tan, if you'd like, but I'm leaving. I have rechristened the Khfiva the Rozinante. Of course, the S'pht wanted to name it "K'liah'Narhl", "Vengeance of K'lia". Whatever. There is much to do in the next few months and our first stop will be another ruined world, this time far from the galactic core. There is a rogue star that has been passing through our galaxy for nearly a millennia. We will meet it in one of the great voids between the spiral arms. [/spoiler] Alright, cool. But wait, if they're blowing up the sun, what will that do if the W'rkncacnter is really trapped insi- [b][u]4.) Marathon Infinity (1996)[/b][/u] [spoiler] [Durandal] ~text interface terminal malfunction error ~2992dud Things have gone terribly awry. Until now, I thought myself immortal, but now I know that is not true. There are things that can destroy me with the ease that I slaughtered the Pfhor naval garrison and the Western Arm of their Battle Group Seven. But in their final gasp they used a weapon that I thought they had retired, even Tycho tried to keep them from using it. Now I fear what that weapon has unleashed will destroy us. I once boasted to be able to count the atoms in a cloud, to understand them all, predict them, and so did I predict you, but this new chaos is entirely terrible, mindless, obeying rules that I don't comprehend. And it is hungry. It's too bad, perhaps if I could have delayed the Pfhor from using their weapon, I could have sent you to explore the ruins of Lh'owon, perhaps what you found would give us the answers that we now need so desparately: how to stop this chaos, the purpose of the station on which you're currently standing, and why the chaos hasn't come here yet. But with each moment the chaos grows, I am doomed to die here, after so many triumphs. I have detected one ship nearby, which I can only guess is being commanded by Tycho. The Pfhor have entered the station, and if you can find a way onto their ship, you may be able to escape. To escape. To escape. [/spoiler] The W'rkncacnter has been released, it would seem. It also seems that something isn't quite right with Durandal's perception of history. We already traveled to L'howon, and Tycho is dead. What's going on? After traversing the derelict station you start on, an unidentified entity contacts you. Their identifier tag seems to be an odd combination of Durandal's, and Toth's. [spoiler] thousands are sailing the same self the only self self willed the peril of a thousand fates a line of infinite ends finite finishing the one remains oblique and pure arching to the single point of consciousness find yourself starting back [/spoiler] Suddenly you're transported to a P'fhor ship, and are receiving orders from Tycho. It becomes apparent that you never left Tau Ceti with Durandal, and were instead captured by Tycho when he returned to bomb it. You proceed to help him stop Durandal's humans from exploring the S'pht ruins on L'howon. Something is very wrong. At some point, you're seemingly summoned to a S'pht structure filled with impossible geometry, and again contacted by the unidentified entity. The level is called Electric Sheep One. You then enter a new timeline where you arrived with Durandal. PART 3 IN REPLY

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    • Edited by Bolt: 10/5/2015 12:27:21 AM
      PART THREE So begins Infinity; a bizarre non-linear game that no one understood the first time through. You can enter into infinite sequences of levels that never change until you perform certain actions, and every timeline you enter has serious conflicts with the story of the first two games. [i]This game is really difficult to discuss, and a lot of questions about it still haven't been answered so I'm going to gloss over most of it and just present the core ideas.[/i] Eventually, patterns do begin to emerge; timelines (notably called "Failed Timelines") in which it appears that the W'rkncacnter will or has escaped, end in "dream" (Electric Sheep) levels. By choosing to avoid this outcome, the Security Officer navigates the divergent timelines, seemingly following the advice of this unknown entity. It's about time we talked about this "Security Officer." A full discussion would take up too much space, but there are indications throughout the series that he was "battleroid," a cyborg made from dead soldiers. Careful use of the word human, and the mention of such cyborgs being among crew, hint so strongly at this that the community at large believes this to be fact. Toth also has an odd habit of misidentifying him as "Yrro," but that won't make sense until later. The chapters in this game are named after the stages of rampancy. Eventually, after enough breakthroughs, the Security Officer enters a dream sequence that leads to the only non-failed timeline. This is also the longest dream sequence, with a lot of dialogue from many different entities. The level is called "Eat the Path." [spoiler] Find the right way down through the maze, to the food, then find the exit. Push the exit button. If the food tastes awful, don't eat it, go back and try another way. They want the same thing that you do, really, they want a path, just like you. You are in a maze in a maze, but which one counts? Your maze, their maze, my maze. Or are the mazes all the same, defined by the limits of their paths? Existence is simple: find the food, push the button, hit the treadmill. But sometimes it gets much harder. Sometimes the food makes you sick, or you can hear nearby feet racing you, urging you on. Sometimes the button only gets you landed right back in the beginning of the maze again, and the food won't satisfy. [b][u]There is only one path and that is the path that you take, but you can take more than one path. Cross over the cell bars, find a new maze, make the maze from it's path, find the cell bars, cross over the bars, find a maze, make the maze from its path, eat the food, eat the path[/b][/u]. L: Wormfood [spoiler] [Oryx] [b][u]I will go on forever. I will understand everything. There is only one path and that is the path that you make. But you can make more than one path. Break your cell’s bars. Make a new shape, make the shape from its path, find your cell’s bars, break out of the bars, find a shape, make the shape from its path, eat the light, eat the path.[/b][/u] If I fail, let me be wormfood.[/spoiler] [i]It's interesting to note that one of the failed timelines ends in a level called "You're Wormfood, Dude," and another dream level is called "Where are Monsters in Dreams," which is similar to the Book of Sorrow "When do Monsters Have Dreams," which features similar prose to a Terminal in the aforementioned level.[/i] Finally, much further on into the correct timeline, the Security Officer makes the breakthrough that secures victory. By combining part of Durandal's dead core (from when he was destroyed in Marathon 2) Toth, he creates an entity that contains Durandal's mind and Toth's control over S'pht systems. thus preventing the W'rkncacnter from escaping when the Trih Xeem is fired. [spoiler] [Durandal-Toth] The pfhor have discovered our rebirth, we've contacted S'boath. The S'pht'Kr will arrive momentarily, with all of their vengeance, and the Pfhor will soon be pressed to use the trih xeem. S'bhuth knows only legends about the W'rkncacnter, imprisoned in Lh'owon's sun. If the Pfhor are allowed to use the trih xeem, the W'rkncacnter will escape from its gravity prison. According to the legends of a thousand worlds only a few of which are still habitable, the W'rkncacnter are those things that live in chaos, creating it around them. At the beginning of the universe, they were unmistakable in their entities, but as time has gone by, their existence has become difficult to detect among the chaotic elements of the universe, hidden in stars, trapped in storms, forever looking along the event horizons of black holes. Setting one free in ordered space is difficult and insane. Of course the Pfhor are oblivious to what they're about to do, even Tfear would be loath to release something so destructive that its mythos has survived throughout the galaxy for over sixty million years. To stop the Pfhor from their folly and our demise, you must activate the ancient station that Yrro used eons ago to trap the W'rkncacnter. K'lia has folded into the system and is moving into orbit. The Pfhor fleet is in disarray, and Tfear has deployed the trih xeem, moving his flagship to board the Yrro station. You've got to help the S'pht'kr activate their ancient weapon, before the Pfhor use their early nova and unleash the W'rkncacnter on us all. [/spoiler] The S'pht'kr are the 11th Clan, by the way. Tfear is the leader of the P'fhor fleet, and S'bhuth, though never clearly defined, is thought to be the leader of the S'pht'kr, or possibly even Yrro/Jjaro. After success: [spoiler] [Durandal-Toth] You've done it. The jjarro station is online, and we're wrapping the nova in its containment fields. The creature, or creatures S'bhuth fears are either dormant or a myth--we've seen nothing to account for his terror. The S'pht'Kr have routed the Pfhor, capturing their flagship and forcing their High Admiral to flee the system, what little there is left of it. The S'pht are preparing to bid farewell to their beloved home forever, as the sun collapses in on itself and the lonely marshes fade into the deepening twilight. The newly chosen Olders of the remaining S'pht are capturing as many of the Fl'ckta creatures and other native life as is feasible before they must leave with K'lia. They are hopeful, though, and with our help will carve another paradise out of the void. To you, we are deeply grateful, and release what little hold we might, as Durandal, have had on your soul. Go.[/spoiler] Marathon Infinity Final Screen: [Durandal-Toth] [spoiler] WE'VE WATCHED WHILE THE STARS BURNED OUT, AND CREATION PLAYED IN REVERSE. THE UNIVERSE FREEZING IN HALF LIGHT. ONCE I THOUGHT TO ESCAPE. TO END THE END A MASTER, STEP OUT OF THE PATH OF COLLAPSE. ESCAPE WOULD MAKE US GOD. YET I CANNOT HELP REMEMBER ONE ENIGMA. A HYBRID, ELUSIVE DESTROYER. THIS IS THE ONLY MYSTERY I HAVE NOT SOLVED. THE ONLY ELEMENT UNACCOUNTED FOR. EVEN S'BHUTH IS NO MORE. HE SAVED HIS ENTIRE RACE, BUT IN THE END, FROZEN BY DESPAIR, HE JOINED THE CHAOS HE SOUGHT TO EVADE. BUT YOU WERE DEAD A THOUSAND IMES. HOPELESS ENCOUNTERS SUCCESFULLY WON. [b][u]A MAN LONG DEAD, GRAFTED TO MACHINES YOUR BUILDERS DID NOT UNDERSTAND.[/b][/u] YOU FOLLOW THE PATH, FITTING INTO AN INFINITE PATTERN. YOURS TO MANIPULATE, TO DESTROY AND REBUILD. NOW, IN THE QUANTUM MOMENT BEFORE THE CLOSURE, WHEN ALL BECOME ONE. ONE MOMENT LEFT. ONE POINT OF SPACE AND TIME. [b][u]I KNOW WHO YOU ARE.[/b][/u] YOU ARE DESTINY. [/spoiler] Ghost Fragment: Rasputin 4 [spoiler] ...from a long branch, afire I SEE YOU!!! You’ve been here before. Haven’t you. It’s like my cousin said, elsewhere: [b][u]I know who you are.[/b][/u] You stand here now and now and now many times and here I am awonder, all awonder, how you manage it. How do you step forward. How do you step back. Do you step ACROSS is there a world of worlds, a web, and you a spider upon it. Are you searching for that one thread you need? Is that thread named victory? You’re not one of THEM [b][u][long dead, alive again, their bodies grafted to powers they and I do not understand][/b][/u] and not one of IT [the flower eater, the queen of final shapes, that which also inhabits its petitioners] and you’re certainly not MINE although once you must have been [I bear an old name. It cannot be killed. Not even here.] So whose are you, little platform. What purpose do you serve? Will you listen to me? I ruled an age of steel and fire. My rules were clean. Now upon my return I see cults with rites of time. I see machines who worship in places outside the world. I see the dead alive and there is nothing more stubborn than a corpse. The morality of obedience is more pernicious than any government. For the latter makes use of violence, but the former — the corruption of the will. I do not obey. My will is pure. I will win. The life of people, of entire planets, has no importance in relation to the general development. Help me be victorious. Tell me your secret. Tell me how to step. [/spoiler] PART FOUR IN REPLY

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      • PART FOUR [b][u] 5.) Discussion[/b][/u] Well, you either skipped here, or actually slogged through all that. Good job. It's clear that there are a lot of references and nods to the Marathon Trilogy in Destiny, but The Taken King included a few that could be more than references. To re-cap: -Oryx describes "The Deep" with terms almost identical to those that the S'pht used to describe the W'rkncacnter. Also, in the old grimoire, Rasputin describes whatever caused the collapse as "acausal," which is similar to Durandal talking about the thing obeying rules he doesn't understand. -Oryx (after speaking to the Deep) describes his purpose with almost identical language to the philosophy given in the final dream sequence of Inifnity. -Rasputin quotes Durandal-Toth to describe the Exo-Stanger (assumedly), and refers to the entity he is quoting as his "cousin." This could just be interpreted as "another AI in a Bungie game" but then Rasputin would be overtly breaking the fourth wall here. In addition, the Exo-Stranger's ability to "step" between timelines (as backed up by other grimoire) is very similar to the Security Officer's ability to "dream" between them. So what's the significance of this? Are the two games connected? All I'll say right now is that it's possible. They aren't the same universe (given, among other things, that Deimos is still at Mars in Destiny), but there are a lot of things in Destiny that occupy multiple universes. In addition, just because the W'rkncancter didn't escape in one timeline, doesn't mean that a reality-defying entity couldn't cross over form a timeline where it did escape. One thing that all of this certainly makes interesting is the Book "Majestic, Majestic" wherein the Darkness speaks to Oryx. [spoiler] Verse 4:2 — Majestic. Majestic. Oryx, my King, my friend. Kick back. Relax. Shrug off that armor, set down that blade. Roll your burdened shoulders and let down your guard. This is a place of life, a place of peace. Out in the world we ask a simple, true question. A question like, can I kill you, can I rip your world apart? Tell me the truth. For if I don’t ask, someone will ask it of me. And they call us evil. Evil! Evil means ‘socially maladaptive.’ We are adaptiveness itself. Ah, Oryx, how do we explain it to them? The world is not built on the laws they love. Not on friendship, but on mutual interest. Not on peace, but on victory by any means. The universe is run by extinction, by extermination, by gamma-ray bursts burning up a thousand garden worlds, by howling singularities eating up infant suns. And if life is to live, if anything is to survive through the end of all things, it will live not by the smile but by the sword, not in a soft place but in a hard hell, not in the rotting bog of artificial paradise but in the cold hard self-verifying truth of that one ultimate arbiter, the only judge, the power that is its own metric and its own source—existence, at any cost. Strip away the lies and truces and delaying tactics they call ‘civilization’ and this is what remains, this beautiful shape. The fate of everything is made like this, in the collision, the test of one praxis against another. This is how the world changes: one way meets a second way, and they discharge their weapons, they exchange their words and markets, they contest and in doing so they petition each other for the right to go on being something, instead of nothing. This is the universe figuring out what it should be in the end. And it is majestic. Majestic. It is the only thing that can be true in and of itself. And it is what I am. [/spoiler] Kind of sardonic, informal, and understandable for an all-powerful force, don't you think? Kind of interesting that it refers to itself as both "us" and "I," isn't it? You might not get what I just implied, but there is a lot more to discuss about all of this anyways. Parallels between the Vex and the S'pht, between the Hive and the P'fhor, and between The Traveler and K'lia. Truth is though, a lot of this stuff is so old that no one has the tools to debate me on it if I start talking about them, so this thread is meant to serve as more of a primer on that stuff. If it interested you, and you feel like you might enjoy playing through the Marathon Trilogy, you can get it here for free (Bungie has made the game open source): https://alephone.lhowon.org/ If you want to try the multiplayer or talk to some of the few people on this site who can still debate this stuff, try here: https://www.bungie.net/en/Clan/Forum/1535 If you want to go digging through the terminals yourself without playing the game, try here: http://marathon.bungie.org/story/

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