What I will say, after attempting my first raid tonight, is that I now completely understand the elitism. I've been completely against it until tonight. I managed to get to golgoroth, took me a few attempts on warpriest to get in synch with the group I was with, passed it anyway and got to the second boss. By this point half of the team I was with had left for whatever reason, and i was left with a few kids. They kept inviting their little friends, people kept dropping out, eventually we got 6. I'm 27, I don't play with kids as I find it uncomfortable, more of a conversation thing. Anyway, these little -blam!-ers started acting all high and mighty, so I asked them what i should do for the fight. One kid proceeded to explain with the following; "I know a glitch but I'm not going to do it, you guys don't deserve to know, but basically power, shoot that orb thing there, jump down and blah blah blah, then repeat" His actual words were blah blah, I admit I laughed a little but felt hesitant at this point and took to google for a quick read of the guide. By this point they're all talking to each other about shit that has nothing to do with anything, one guys talking Spanish to a family member and briefly switching to English to talk about nothing. We try golgoroth like 3 times and wipe every time, doing what I should be which is adds and bubble or whatever, out of the blue one guy leaves, the other 4 decide to go play crucible.... Now I set up the game and the party, I sent the invites and made the posts, and these little -blam!-ers decide to leave without really trying, so I think bugger that and kick them as they were leaving anyway. I get another 5 guys into the raid, all of which "know what they are doing and are happy to help" long story short, and many many wipes later they start raging. Shouting at each other and swearing, I'm doing exactly what I was told to do, not dying. Each time the restart screen came up I was top for damage to golgoroth and adds killed. They just wouldn't listen to each other at all. And constantly -blam!-ed up. I wouldn't mind, I expected problems as it was my first raid. But from what I gathered I play better than these organised groups and elitist'... From now on, I'll only invite people that actually know what they are doing, I learn by doing usually, but a 5 minute read was all I needed to know what to do. The elitists are full of it, and the guys making logical posts for experience only are totally understandable. I'll attempt again tomorrow and make sure I make it clear for experience only. I was supposed to be the noob.