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originally posted in: Did Jaren Ward become Dredgen Yor?
9/14/2015 8:53:46 PM
15
Bump. Spoilers below. Ghost Fragment: The Last Word 4 [spoiler]Then. Palamon was ash. I was only a boy – my face caked in soot, snot and sorrow. I’d assumed Jaren, my friend, our Guardian, the savior of Palamon, would always protect us – could always save us… But I was a fool. Jaren, and the others, only a handful, but still our best hunters, our hardest hearts, had left three suns prior. Tracking Fallen, after the bandits had caused a stir. The stranger – the other – arrived the following day. He rarely spoke. Took a room. Took our hospitality. I was intrigued by him, as I was Jaren when he’d first arrived. But the stranger was cold. Distant. Damaged, I thought. But I wasn’t afraid. Not yet. Only a child, I knew the monsters of our world to walk like men, but they were not. They were something alien. Four-armed and savage. The stranger was polite, but solemn. I took him for a sad, broken man, and he was. Though, at the time, I didn’t understand how that could make one dangerous. As with Jaren, father made an effort to keep me away from the stranger. It wouldn’t matter. As the silhouette approached, fear held tight. The dark figure towered over me. Looking into me – through me. He smiled. My knees weak. All lost. Then, he turned and walked away. Leaving ruin and a heartbroken, terrified boy in his wake without a second glance. I’ve been chasing that stranger’s shadow ever since. Now. We stood silent, the sun high. Seconds passed, feeling more like hours. He looked different. He seemed, now, to be weightless – effortless in an existence that would crush a man burdened by conscience. My gaze remained locked as I felt a heat rising inside of me. The other spoke… “Been awhile.” I gave no reply. “The gunslinger’s sword… his cannon. That was a gift.” My silence held as my thumb caressed the perfectly worn hammer at my hip. “An offering from me… to you.” The heat grew. Centered in my chest. I felt like a coward the day Jaren Ward died and for many cycles after. But here, I felt only the fire of my Light. The other probed… “Nothing to say?” He let the words hang. “I’ve been waiting for you. For this day.” His attempt at conversation felt mundane when judged against all that had come before. “Many times I thought you’d faltered. Given up…” All I’d lost, all who’d suffered, flashed rapid through my mind, intercut with a dark silhouette walking toward a frightened, weak, coward of a boy. The fire burned in me. The other continued… “But here you are. This is truly an end…” As his tongue slipped between syllables my gun hand moved as if of its own will. Reflex and purpose merged with anger, clarity and an overwhelming need for just that… an end. In step with my motion, the fire within burst into focus – through my shoulder, down my arm – as my finger closed on the trigger of my third father’s cannon. Two shots. Two bullets engulfed in an angry glow. The other fell. I walked to his corpse. He never raised his cursed Thorn – the jagged gun with the festering sickness. I looked down at the dead man who had caused so much death. My shooter still embraced by the dancing flames of my Light. A sadness came over me. I thought back to my earliest days. Of Palamon. Of Jaren. Leveling my cannon at the dead man’s helm, I paid one final tribute to my mentor, my savior, my father and my friend… “Yours… Not mine.” …as I closed my grip, allowing Jaren’s cannon, now my own, to have the last, loud word.[/spoiler] Ghost Fragment: Thorn 4 [spoiler]The Shadow and the Light TYPE: Transcript. DESCRIPTION: Conversation. PARTIES: Two [2]. One [1] Ghost-type, designate [REDACTED] [u.1], One [1] Guardian-type, Class [REDACTED] [u.2] ASSOCIATIONS: Breaklands; Durga; Dwindler’s Ridge; Last Word; Malphur, Shin; North Channel; Palamon; Thorn; Velor; Ward, Jaren; WoS; Yor, Dredgen; //AUDIO UNAVAILABLE// //TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS…/ [u.1:0.1] Such Darkness. [u.2:0.1] Impressed? [u.1:0.2] Far from it. [u.2:0.2] To each their own. [u.1:0.3] His Light is faded. [u.2:0.3] His Light is gone. [u.1:0.4] You are an infection. [u.2:0.4] I am that which will cleanse. [u.1:0.5] You are a monster. [u.2:0.5] Heh. An old friend once saw me as the same. He was right, and, had we met earlier, so too would you be. [u.1:0.6] You’d dare defend yourself – all you’ve done – as anything but monstrous? [u.2:0.6] No more than a hurricane. [u.1:0.7] Then you’re a force of nature? [u.2:0.7] I am all that is right. You may not see it – for lack of looking, or blind ignorance – but I am all that is good. [u.1:0.8] You’ve just murdered a good man. [u.2:0.8] He shot first. [u.1:0.9] Yet you stand. [u.2:0.9] Guess he missed. [u.1:1.0] He never misses. [u.2:1.0] First time for everything. [silence] [u.2:1.1] His cannon? Nice piece of hardware. [u.2:1.2] Well-worn, but clean. Smooth hammer. [u.1:1.1] It was his prize. [u.2:1.3] Guess he put too much faith in the wrong steel. [u.1:1.2] Is that where you’re faith lies, in steel? [u.2:1.4] Not for some time. My steel is only an extension. My faith is in the shadow. [u.1:1.3] Then my Light is an affront to all you are. I am your truest enemy. [u.2:1.5] One of many. [u.1:1.4] Would you end me? [u.2:1.6] Not you. Not now. [u.1:1.5] The shadow knows mercy. [u.2:1.7] The shadow knows no such thing. [u.1:1.6] Then what? [u.2:1.8] The other. [u.1:1.7] What other? [u.2:1.9] The dead man’s charge. [u.1:1.8] The boy? [u.1:1.9] You’d end him as well? [u.2:2.0] If it comes to that… We’ll see. [u.1:2.0] I won’t let you have the child. [u.2:2.1] Been long enough now, think maybe he’s a man. [u.1:2.1] You cannot have him. [u.2:2.2] Not yet. [u.1:2.2] I won’t let you. [u.2:2.3] That you could stop me is an amusing thought. [silence] [u.2:2.4] Here. [silence] [u.2:2.5] Take it. [u.1:2.3] Why? [u.2:2.6] Give the apprentice his master’s “sword.” It is a gift. [u.1:2.4] You cannot have him. [u.2:2.7] You fear for his Light? [u.1:2.5] He… [u.2:2.8] …is special. [u.1:2.6] Yes. [u.2:2.9] I am aware. [u.1:2.7] You’re trying to tempt him. You’re feeding his anger. [u.2:3.0] The gun is a memento, nothing more. [u.1:2.8] You claim to be a vessel, a hollow shell where once a man stood, but that is just a lie. The man is still in you. [u.2:3.1] There is no man here, I am now, and for the rest of time, only Dredgen Yor. [u.1:2.9] “The Eternal Abyss?” [u.2:3.2] So, not all the forgotten languages are dead. [u.1:3.0] Hide behind whatever titles you wish, it is all still a façade. No force of nature would play such games. [u.2:3.3] Games? [u.1:3.1] The cannon. You wish to tempt the boy. Too spur him on and fuel his rage. There is intent there. The actions of a man, monstrous, mad or otherwise… you are nothing more. [u.2:3.4] And what value does your conclusion bring, flawed as it may be? [u.1:3.2] That a hurricane can only be weathered, not stopped. Not redirected. A force of nature is uncaring and without intent, but a man… [u.2:3.5] Yes? [u.1:3.3] A man is none of those things. [silence] [u.1:3.4] A man can be killed. [silence] [u.2:3.6] And there it is… [u.1:3.5] There what is…? [u.2:3.7] A sliver of hope.[/spoiler]
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  • Edited by shaunvfx: 9/14/2015 10:06:41 PM
    Doesn't that straight up answer the fact that jaren and dredgen are one in the same?

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  • Edited by Sun Valley King: 9/14/2015 10:10:51 PM
    Absolutely not. Quite the contrary. In Thorn 4, Jaren's ghost has a conversation with Dredgen Yor right after Yor kills Ward, in which Yor gives The Last Word to the ghost pass on to Shin Malphur. The Last Word 4 is the final showdown between Yor and Malphur where Malphur is the first Hunter to ever use the golden gun.

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  • Dude.... I read that as Jaren being consumed by darkness only to become Dredgen. That conversation between Dredgen and his former ghost as Jaren, is about Malphur and him receiving the gun. If you read thorn 4 then read last word 4 it makes a lot of sense that Malphur would end Dredgen with his own gun. Pretty cool.

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  • No. Yor literally shot Ward dead. [u.1:0.8] You’ve just murdered a good man. [u.2:0.8] He shot first. [u.1:0.9] Yet you stand. [u.2:0.9] Guess he missed. [u.1:1.0] He never misses. [u.2:1.0] First time for everything.

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  • I think it isn't literal but figurative. Think about the conversations previous where the ghosts mention of his name is redacted, and here in the fourth card he says he shall be named Dredgen from now on. Why would the ghost argue with the being who just shot his guardian? The ghosts argues that light still exists within him. Why would the ghost give a crap if it wasn't his guardian? Everything I have read points to these two being the same person. There is a lot of allusion as well, about Jaren missing a shot. Maybe Jaren recognized he was being taken over by the darkness and attempted to shoot himself only for him to fail and succumb to the darkness which then moves his hand etc to miss the shot.

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  • Yeah, Yor is standing out in the wilderness with two guns, firing them off symbolically and the ghost makes no mention of this idiocy. All so you can have your Darth Vader-Anakin Skywalker fantasy. It is literally spelled out right in front of you. You are simply grasping at straws because you want to believe Jaren Ward is Anakin Skywalker.

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  • Hey asshat, you are dead set on them being different, I am entertaining the idea that they are the same. You had to be a dick with your responses instead of talking it through. I'll leave you with one thing. Have you ever seen fight club? Did you see how Tyler Durden died? Maybe this was the same thing except the bad personality wins. It's a thought and it would make sense given the rest of the information. If you choose to be angry that I am looking at an alternative potential then that's your problem. It's a theory that I am testing through conversation. You speak as though your outcome is fact. Which it is not.

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  • I have looked at the alternative potential and it just isn't there. You have to make so many leaps of faith for the story to be viable, and there are so many holes that it makes it a pretty bad story.

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  • alright asshole. I am not a huge Star Wars fan and could give a shit about Anakin. Your typical grasping at straws remark is typical. I'll move along now, but your jerk of a response doesn't even deserve this reply...

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  • Not my problem if you can't deal with the facts that are right in front of you. I could go in depth and explain why, but you already have dismissed everything that doesn't fit in with your preconceived narrative.

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  • Not facts. Go look up the definition.

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  • You dense motherf**ker. Just stop please. Stop over thinking, this couldn't be more obvious that Yor and Ward are different persons. I've been saying this, to people like you from the day someone started arguing over this, and look at that. I was right.

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  • Lol look how worked up you are. What a loser.

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  • Really, you start calling names now. Seriously are you that offended about this? Get a life.

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  • Yor has a conversation with two different ghosts in Thorn 3 and Thorn 4. Thorn 3 is his last conversation with his ghost. Thorn 4 is his conversation with Ward's ghost after he gunned him down. From Thorn 4: [quote][u.1:0.5] You are a monster. [u.2:0.5] Heh. [b]An old friend once saw me as the same[/b]. He was right, and, had we met earlier, so too would you be.[/quote] Yor is clearly referencing the last conversation that he had with his ghost in Thorn 3. From Thorn 3: [quote][u.1:5.5] You’re a monster.[/quote] [quote]u.2:5.0] You will. Or I will carve the Light from your shell and leave the carcass of my first and last friend in the dirt of this dull, red world for no one to find.[/quote] Why wouldn't his ghost remember the previous conversation? It is right there in front of you. Yor killed Ward, and Malphur killed Yor with the golden gun.

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