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#feedback

Edited by Malphisto: 9/5/2015 9:57:47 AM
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THE HONEST OPINION... (Malphisto's Feedback on Recent Update and Twitch Stream)

Alright, so some folks already know that I have been holding off on posting my personal thoughts on this stuff for a number of reasons. Probably the greatest of those being that I had been drinking (Oh Bungie, you drove me to drink...LOL! Its funny but true! XD ) and obviously was in no fit state to be giving any sort of proper feedback. The other reason, upon finally getting sober, was that I felt the need to just take a sit back, relax and let all the information just sorta brew for a bit. Reflect upon it all. That being said, I'll be giving my honest thoughts on all this. [b][THE GOOD][/b] It would be unfair of me to judge something and render a verdict if I did not also include the positives. Such being the case, I feel it wise to cover the good points and changes that Bungie has made with respect to Destiny's new expansion. [b]1:[/b] "Vault Space"- This was obviously intended to be the highlight of the stream, it kept being alluded to the entire time. The storage has been doubled which is something many have been pushing for a LOT. And when I say many? I mean MANY. Pretty sure media outlets have even talked about it as well. I personally don't ever suffer from a lack of space, but there are hardcore collectors out there who greatly needed it and this definitely benefits them. [b]2:[/b] "Character Levels"- Light no longer determines your actual level. This is excellent because now players have more of a reason to go around killing things. As with any game that has a leveling/exp system, the greatest joy is always in getting that "Level Up" which puts a smile on your face. [b]3:[/b] "Marks"- Combing the Vanguard and Crucible Marks into a single currency was smart since now folks don't HAVE to force themselves to play PvP if they want to get stuff from the Crucible Vendors and vice versa. You also remove that annoying Weekly Limit which seriously made no sense originally. Its also cross characters, so people can now use a single toon to build up their other Guardians. [b]4:[/b] "Class Items and Ghosts"- Holy crap, they ACTUALLY both do something now outside of just looking pretty. I remember players back like, within the first couple weeks of the game having first launched giving their own feedback and making suggestions that these items should play an actual role in the game. Nice to see this welcome change. [b]5:[/b] "Exotic Blueprints"- I love the concept of the Blueprints itself, being able to have an actual collection list so that once you get them you will always have them. [b][THE BAD][/b] ALRIGHT! So probably the part of this post that most were wanting to see the most. (Bungie too?) Now there were a few other things that I personally thought were considered good but I didn't think were a big deal enough to make the above list. Unfortunately, despite all the various positives with the TTK, there is one very LARGE glaring negative which is just so monumentally huge that these redeeming qualities just don't manage to make up for in the least. Said issue had me so ridiculously furious that I needed to distance myself for everything Destiny related and then proceeded to drink the rest of the night in hopes of improving my mood. (For anyone curious: it proved to be a success) BUT FIRST! I think it worth mentioning this as well... [b]1:[/b] "Lack of Details"- I honestly re-watched the live stream like...5 times. No joke. I did this because I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing any bits of information or being confused about what I was hearing. And I have to say, while you guys did reveal quite a bit, you also created more questions as well in regards to the stuff you were trying to explain. I'll be making another post however to cover this since it goes hand in hand with an entirely other kettle of fish. [b]2:[/b] I'm not even going to prime this one with a title. Pretty sure most already know what the "big thing" is that I was talking about. The one thing you would think should have been counted among the list of positives. INFUSION... Now, to be totally fair, I think the system of Infusion is brilliant. Gotta give credit where credit is due. However, [b]IT IS TOTALLY COMPLETELY WASTED AS PRESENTED![/b] This new system being introduced SCREAMS Gear Ascension, and is obviously a re-imagined concept inspired by Etheric Light. And yet, despite that, I can't help but wonder WHY it doesn't also apply to all Year 1 content? And now I have to say "content" instead of Legendary because the Exotics are also being included in that as well. Allow me to elaborate. [b]MANY PLAYERS HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR CONTINUED GEAR ASCENSION FOR ALL YEAR 1 LEGENDARY WEAPONS AND ARMOR FOR MONTHS[/b]. It is quite obviously a big deal for people. Now, I feel it worth mentioning that for said months, there were those either disagreeing or flatout trolling anyone on the forums who shared this opinion. Why? Because those people already did not care about the Legendary Weapons and Armor. They had already made the conscious decision that once TTK came out that they would be getting rid of their old gear. However, now that Year 1 Exotics are also in that same boat, NOW is magically important enough to have continued Gear Ascension. NOW its something worth complaining about or making petitions for all because it now impacts them. Why am I bringing this up? To illustrate a point. People don't like feeling as if they have wasted their time. The general consensus is that Year 1 was nothing more than a $100 Beta. You acquired data from the players and our feedback and then used that information to design TTK. And so everyone is under the impression that this means the game we got is going to be improving and getting better, right? Only problem there is that you really aren't improving so much as it seems you're just burying it in the sands of time to serve as nothing more than a far distant memory. Players spent hundreds of hours replaying the same content over and over again as intended, as designed with the emphasis being focused on acquiring new weapons and armor (Legendary and Exotic alike). When Dark Below came out and the vanilla Legendary Gear was given no option to upgrade, the masses gave an uproar, turned volatile and for many (myself included) outright quit the game. It wasn't until with House of Wolves and the introduction of Etheric Light that many of us came back to Destiny with the prospect of having value returned to our old gear that we worked hard for to get. But now with TTK, its the Dark Below all over again. As I have argued already in this post: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/146511648/0/0 Those who are now feeling the sting from the Year 1 Exotics not being brought forward, you are NOW understanding how the rest of us feel. Now, turning my attention back to Bungie, I need you to understand that people have lives. And not in the sense of day to day activity. Your team doesn't have much experience when it comes to games like this, so let me explain an important point to you. When it comes to online games that are ongoing like this, people make the choice to commit themselves to it. Humans have finite life spans. It is the greatest motivation in our existence. Destiny is said to be a 10 year game, meaning you are basically asking every player here to give [b]10 YEARS[/b] of their life to you and your game. Any time spent playing this game is time that people are choosing to invest, time that could go to any number of other things. Their time, [b]THEIR LIFE ON THIS EARTH[/b], is a form of currency [b]MORE VALUABLE[/b] than any amount of money. People want something in exchange for their time, for the price they paid in more ways than one. They associate this more often than not with the rewards they acquired. The Vault of Glass. Crota's End. Trials of Osiris. Prison of Elders. Strikes. The Crucible. All these have rewards to be earned, goals that players consciously worked towards. Whether it be that Exotic they spent so long searching for or that Legendary they religiously played the Raids non-stop to find, the [b]PROOF OF INVESTMENT IS ATTACHED TO THE REWARDS[/b]. Making Year 1 Legendary and Exotic Weapons/Armor obsolete by not allowing them to be further ascended/infused disrespects that investment and insults their choice to play the game in the first place. Yes, "[i]Year 1 Gear will have a place in Year 1 content[/i]" [b]IS CONSIDERED AN INSULT[/b]. People didn't grind Vault of Glass to get gear so that they could just continue repeating that raid over and over again. No. They got these weapons and armors because they were looking to bring those things with them going forward into the future of the game. That is why it is called Time Investment. It is a natural, psychological aspect hardwired into every Human being. It becomes more prevalent in older people, though and starts to kick in around your 20s or 30s especially if you're the sort who works a full-time job and you, like so many others in the world, deal with an enormous amount of stress in your day to day life. In conclusion? The Infusion System should apply to everything. Its brilliant, the concept itself is beautiful. But as it stands now, it fails to realize its full potential to be what can actually DRIVE Destiny to go its full 10 years with all of us still playing it. Because if you give everyone the choice to build their characters the way they want to without said restrictions, not only will you improve the quality of your game but you will also ensure that their invested time is not only respected, but appreciated.

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  • Bump

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    I thought I would be disappointed that everything is being left behind, but I'm not. Won't it be fun to have to start all over again? Having to find the new FB, LDR, VoC and ghorn (which are all I really use) is something to look forward to I think.

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    • They should simply let us ascend our old exotics, raid, and trials gear/weapons at least. As they were the hardest to get and had more lore infamy attached to them. Providing us the option to keep the old gear alive while giving us fresh new options of gear/weaponry should be part of the goal of the upcoming dlc. Why should we end up paying more for new content while at the same losing our current content? When i bought the skyrim dlc they [b]didn't [/b] make my old swords obsolete, they allowed me to reforge and strengthen them to [b]use on the new enemies[/b], while at the same time giving me those new ones to play with.

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      • "Become legend" they said. Look at your favorite characters in movies, comics, anime, etc. When the hero/villain has a weapon of amazing power that they are known for carrying the weapon itself becomes part of the character. They don't just toss it aside. King Arthur wouldn't be King Arthur without Excalibur. Thor has to have his hammer. Nightmare wields The Soul Edge. I love my damn Hard Light, and you can't expect me to just move on to a new shiny weapon. In my group of friends I am known for using the hard light, and using it effectively. Its been my favorite weapon ever since I first fired it. It's been a close friend and has served me well. It's part of my guardian, so if it cannot progress neither can I. I already preordered months ago, so I am stuck here clinging to the vain hope that my treasured friend will be able to accompany me. I know it won't, but I am just praying they will offer some way to bring it along. So much for them not wanting us to look at gear and weapons as obsolete.

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        • Friggin great post again. It makes me sad that the people at Bungie/Activision are so blind. Bungie, your game is here to ENTERTAIN people and make them happy. Not to piss them off every 4 months with a new update that insults them for putting time into the game in the first place. Gun infusion: GREAT PLAN! But wait…. The perks don’t transfer? What’s the point? How about buying an etheric light for 150 marks that would ‘update’ your favourite gun to year 2 quality and power? An etheric light that has the same price tag as a new gun. How can that make anyone angry? And the year two twitch stream: what an insult! Having sheep-people with Destiny shirts sit there screaming: “Vault space! Vault space! Vault space! Vault space! Vault space! Vault space!” to distract everyone from the real issues. Yes, vault space was a problem. But it was maybe 4% of the problems. Did magically no-one ask questions about ascending weapons from year one to year two? Did no-one ask about reforging in year two? Did no-one ask about server problems and lag? Did no-one ask about end-game optional matchmaking or in-game LFG???? Just hire Malphisto on a weekly or monthly basis. Whenever you have a new plan: ask him first. A whole lot of anger and frustration can be stopped that way.

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        • I'm not sure that the class items aspect should be under the "good" section. Class items have historically been something we could put on to add to our limited individuality. A big gripe I saw on here often was the issue of not being able to wear alternate class items because you had to wear the item for whatever faction you were trying to rep. So here, in classic Bungie form, we take 1 step forward and 2 steps back. Now I can pledge to a faction so I'm no longer limited to their class items, GREAT! Woah, but slow down, because now your class items have perks, COOL! Hold on, hold on, they will also FACTOR INTO YOUR ATTACK AND DEFENSE RATING. I'm sorry what? So I'm granted the freedom I wanted from faction class items, and then forced back into wearing certain items to keep a high enough light level to complete certain content? It's just a shift. It would be exactly the same as attaching attack/defense to your shader. And since year 1 items won't infuse, Now I'm not just leaving my weapons, exotics, and armor behind, now I'm leaving my class items as well? So I'll not be able to wear my vault cloak? Or my TDB titan mark? Or my original IB warlock bond? Really?? Think about that, now I have to regrind IB to level 4 on each character to get the "new and improved" class item in year 2 because even though my old one will earn IB rep, it will drop my light level in a game mode where level matters? Wrong. I'm sorry, so very, very wrong.

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          • Been posting about that last part for weeks. When you assign rewards based on game activities, you can't then make those rewards useless. That is the definition of disrespecting a players time. I was something to the tune of fifteen *completed* raids in before my Vex dropped. I never got a Crux. Now i feel like that time was wasted. That I could have spent the hours trying to even find a group (matchmaking *cough cough*) and get a successful raid run going could have been spent doing something i like. And look... There have been a lot of things swirling around posts like this. A lot of players feeling like this is a totally acceptable and even expected practice. Let me be clear. It is not okay. I don't care what other games do. I'm not playing Diablo or WoW. I'm playing Destiny. It is *not* an mmo. And even if it were, even if I accept that idea, that does not give them the right to outright lie to their player base. There are press clippings and interviews from a scant 3 months ago saying, to paraphrase, "Yeah we really dropped the ball on that Dark Below stuff, huh? Our bad. Look we get it. You're gear is important to you. Here's a great system to make sure you can take your favorite stuff with you. We sure won't make that mistake again." Oh look. And it's not so much that gear isn't moving forward, at least for me. Its this middle of the road, half in, half out, half assed approach to this whole game that is killing it for me. The complete lack of vision and leadership that is so evident in the way things trickle down from on high to the player base. The schizophrenic ideas and concepts introduced only to be abandoned 120 days later. The stubborn arrogance with which they interact with their player base. The duplicitous nature of their practices and press releases. All of these roil in the pot and lead me to one inevitable conclusion. This is it for me. I may purchase ttk if Rift looks good enough, but after that, I'm done. The company simply can't be trusted. The alarming regularity and frequency with which they change ideas, insult their players, and alter the gameplay philosophy means that any decision made cannot be counted on to remain permanent. Maybe for some this "ever changing landscape" is a positive. I disagree. And while i can't hold Bungie accountable for their practices, I don't have to be party to them either.

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            • Know what would be nice? If you would wait until the thing actually comes out. Yeah. That would make sense.

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              • BUMP Bungie Weekly Update - 12/04/2014 by DeeJ “The last thing we wanted was for you to look at your favorite gun or helmet and decide that it had become obsolete. Since the reveal, we’ve read a lot of ideas for how this could have been done better. Your feedback is clear: The time you have invested in your stuff should be respected.”

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                • Bump [b][i][u]#Infusion4all[/u][/i][/b]

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                • BUMP

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                • Summary: The good: Destiny's gameplay mechanics and potential new lore The bad: Bungie. Everything else with this game and their "vision" for it.

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                • I'm not sure how class items and ghosts are are good addition to the new DLC. One thing I'm really suspicious about is they said there are 15 new exotic weapons. Now In the stream, I've seen a newer version of Suros, bad juju, Monte Carlo and fourth horseman. Are they part of the 15 exotics to be introduced? I have this bad feeling they are. Another thing is the Armor. If they can design different ones for different factions, and if they actually do look good then no one will complain that we all look the same and everyone would feel unique in a way.

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                  • Well said...my take on the taken wallet and ALL dlcs/updates/hot "fixes" as proven before in TRUE bungie fashion... [b][u][u]1 step forward and 2 steps back[/u][/u][/b]

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                  • Now when I feel like grinding and doing chores, I mow the grass, clean out my gutters, vacuum the carpets, mop my kitchen and do my laundry. At least I know my time investment pays off from those activities.

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                    • Petition to allow optional infusion on year 1 legendary weapons: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/148284067

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                      • I shut it off half way through.. That's how I felt

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                      • bump

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                      • Bump

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                      • The bad for me. The exotic "upgade" path part 2: This "new" exotic upgrade program sure sounds familiar. [b]Taken King exotic upgade:[/b] Find a old exotic, go to the tower vendor (blueprint kiosk), pay large sum of currency (150 marks) and get a higher damage [i]UN-Leveled[/i] version of that exotic. .....that's now painted black and may have slightly different perks [b]Dark Below exotic upgade:[/b] Find a old exotic, go to tower vedor (Xur on weekend), pay large sum of currency (7000 glim and 1 shard), and get a higher damage [i]UN-Leveled[/i] version of that exotic Hmmmmmm. Let's see what Bungie had to say about that last year after players hated it: [quote][b]Bungie Weekly Update - 12/04/2014[/b] by DeeJ “The last thing we wanted was for you to look at your favorite gun or helmet and decide that it had become obsolete. Since the reveal, we’ve read a lot of ideas for how this could have been done better. Your feedback is clear:[u][i] [b]The time you have invested in your stuff should be respected.”[/b] [/i][/u][/quote]

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                        • [quote]The general consensus is that Year 1 was [u]nothing more than a $100 Beta[/u]. You acquired data from the players and our feedback and then used that information to design TTK.[/quote] BUUUUUUUUUUMP

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                        • Bump

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                        • #saveourexotics

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