You're mostly right. The only people that think titans are good are the people that don't play them. Fist of Havoc is RARELY more than a 1 or 2 person kill. The other dude was right, it shuts down bladedancers. But it's a little lame that the only thing your super is good for, is countering a more useful super. Armor of light is good, but only works on absolute tards. If you're playing against people stupid enough to wander into it, you're probably doing fine to begin with. Bladedancer and Sunsingers can just wander around obliterating everything in their path. Same with Golden gun. And Nova Bomb is pretty -blam!-ing hard to dodge or counter considering the radius, range, and how they jump into the air. It's comparable to Fist of Havoc, just... better. Titans have some decent grenades. The magnetic grenade is my bread and butter in crucible. I get a huge amount of kills with it. It's a guaranteed kill for every stick, and it has some aim assist, so sticking isn't hard if you have some skill. For striker, I go with the lightning grenade. Putting it on walls makes it hella more effective. The flashbang is almost ineffective. It only stuns for maybe half a second, useless. The tripline is probably the best in game, and I am also a fan of the warlock's fusion grenade. But titans aren't lacking too bad in the grenade department. Melee. Shoulder charge is... Not as good as it seems to most people. Honestly, I don't bother. It gets me killed more often than not the way people use shotguns in crucible. Unless you can get someone from behind, you're just begging to get buckshot in the teeth using shoulder charge. It only irritates people because it's a one hit kill. You know what's way easier than having to run in circles to charge up, then bum rushing someone? Hitting them from behind for a huge damage bonus, like the hunter. Or lunging in with OP flame shield melee, like a warlock. Don't bother meleeing with a titan, you'll just get gunned down. I am primarily a shield titan. Armor of light-shotgun at key points. Otherwise I run around with hand cannons, keep my distance, and spam magnetic grenade. Only use melee as last resort to get a shield. Even then it rarely works, the shield takes so long to initiate after the kill, you usually just get capped before it turns on. Titans aren't the worst class in PVP. They DO have the worst super, and the worst melee. However, like any class, if properly played, you can dominate. The learning curve is severe though, if you just want to get in there and enjoy yourself for a bit, and you don't have time to try and keep up with 16 year olds that play Destiny like it's their job, go with the Hunter. Blink around like you just don't care, and go ham when you get a super.