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originally posted in:Collective Of Knowledge
Edited by AnonPig: 5/19/2015 11:17:29 AM
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Everything to know about Jaren Ward, Shin Malphur, and Dredgen Yor

Hello and welcome for the eighth -blam!-ing time guardians. Can I get a break soon? This is getting excessive. As always, I would like to welcome you all personally to the Collective of Knowledge! If you haven't been following these posts then this is the easiest way to find them. If you're really so opposed to making my day a little bit better you can just search CoK. This post will be about a favorite legend of many, Jaren Ward, Dredgen Yor, and Shin Malphur [b]The Legend of Jaren Ward, Dredgen Yor, and Shin Malphur[/b] Jaren Ward is the wielder of The Last Word. This gun is wrapped up in a story all of its own. Starting from the Ghost Fragmen: The Last Word This comes from the time known as the The City Age, really early on in this time to be accurate, in a far off settlement known as Palamon. They had no real set of government, only Magistrate Loken. A young boy, who lost his parents to dregs, lived there, young but watching. He saw the Magistrate and understood how he lost too much and how that was the cause for his tightening grip on the city. And his downfall. We are taken to Ghost fragement: The Last Word 2 Jaren Ward, the owner of the Last word and the third father to the boy previously mentioned, came to Palamon from the south. The boy noticed the iron on Jaren's hip, how it looked both pristine and lived in. He knew the man was dangerous, but also saw that there was a light about him, a pureness to his weight that seemed to hint that his ire was something earned. The boy ran up to Jaren, against his current fathers wishes, and stared at the iron. He barely registered when Jaren started to kneel down offering the boy his sidearm. He took it in his hands.[quote]And I took the weapon in my hand. Carefully. Gently. Not to use. But to observe. To imagine. To feel its weight and know its truth. That was the first time I held "Last Word," but, unfortunately, not the last.[/quote]The boy will one day wield that gun. I believe his name was Shin. Now to go in a chronological order we must go to Ghost Fragment: The Dark Age 2 In this card we see what happens when the Magistrate confronts Jaren Ward. This Lekon was a scared man who didn't want to give up his power. Prodding at Jarens necessary ruthlessness was not the way to go however because it led to his death. The townsfolk watched and the nameless child, [i]Shin[/i], wished that his father would stop it. The townsfolk didn't want it to though, they understood what was happening. Shin left them to follow Jaren, and Jaren adopted the young boy. [b]edit for The Last Word 3, my apologies[/b] The nameless young man, who I still strongly believe to be Shin malphur, followed Jaren and other companions that he referred to as kids. I don't think that this implied they were truly children, only that they were in his custody. Jarens ghost was different from most others, it wouldn't talk to anyone, it would stare at Shin though. He thought it was only due to the closeness of him and Jaren, but there was clearly more. Jaren was out in the woods away from everyones camp. There was a gunshot, sharp and clear to belong to The Last Word. Then there was another. [quote]One shot, dark and infernal. Followed by silence.[/quote]This one did not belong to The Last Word. I feel it safe to assume it belonged to Thorn, and was fired by Dredgen Yor. Shin ran out after the sounds and was met by a light, Jarens ghost, it spoke. This story involves Dredgen Yor, the owner of Thorn. Starting with Ghost Fragment Thorn. Let me first say that this card is said in the future tense, therefore someone who knew him personally, or an omnipotent beings thoughts. The man who became Dredgen Yor was once a noble man. People looked up to him, he was a beacon – hope given form. He made them feel that anyone could stand against the dark as he did. He had a dark secret though, he had thoughts that were dark. [quote]Slowly the shadows' whisper became a voice, a dark call, offering glories enough to make even the brightest Light wander. He knew he was fading, yet he still yearned. On his last day he sat and watched the sun fall. His final thoughts, pure of mind, if not body, held to a fleeting hope - though they would suffer for the man he would become, the people would remember him as he had been. And so the noble man hid himself beneath a darkness no flesh should touch, and gave up his mortal self to claim a new birthright. Whether this was choice, or destiny, is a truth known only to fate. In that cool evening air, as dusk was devoured by night, the noble man ceased to exist. In his place another stood. Same meat. Same bone. But so very different. The first and only of his family. The sole forbearer and last descendent of the name Yor. In his first moments as a new being, he looked down at his Rose and realized for the first time that it held no petals: only the jagged purpose of angry thorns.[/quote] From Ghost Fragment: Thorn 2[quote]ASSOCIATIONS: Breaklands; Durga; Last Word; Malphur, Shin; North Channel; Palamon; Thorn; Velor; Ward, Jaren; WoS; Yor, Dredgen; [u.1:0.1] Can I see what you got there? [silence] [u.1:0.2] Yer cannon...can I see it? [beat] [u.2:0.1] I know you? [beat] [u.1:0.3] Not that I can say. [u.2:0.2] And you wanna hold my piece? [beat] [u.1:0.4] Just that I never...seen one like it. [beat] [u.2:0.3] No, you haven't. [u.1:0.5] Looks dangerous. [u.2:0.4] Seems, maybe, that's the point. [u.1:0.6] Suppose so. [u.1:0.7] Can I see it? [u.2:0.5] Not likely. [silence] [u.1:0.8] Where'd...where'd you find it? [silence] [u.1:0.9] You hearin' me? [silence] [u.3:0.1] He asked you question. [silence] [u.2:0.6] Didn't find it. Made it. [u.1:1.0] Heh. Helluva touch you got then. You a 'smith? [u.2:0.7] I look like a 'smith? [u.1:1.1] Looks can be deceiving. [u.2:0.8] Got that right. [u.1:1.2] There a problem? [u.2:0.9] Doesn't need to be. [u.1:1.3] Glad we got that cleared up...Now, about that piece. [silence] [u.2:1.0] Been to Luna? [u.1:1.4] Excuse me? [u.2:1.1] The Moon. You been? [u.1:1.5] Nobody's been. [u.2:1.2] That a truth? [u.1:1.6] That's a fact. ////INTENTIONAL BREAK FOR IMPORTANCE-AnonPig [u.2:4.0] Look... [audible sobbing] [u.2:4.1] Look at it. [u.2:4.2] Open your eyes. [audible sobbing] [u.2:4.3] Not many get such a clean view. [u.2:4.4] The bone...You see it. Jagged, like thorns. [u.2:4.5] I used to think of it as a rose... [u.2:4.6] Focusing on its bloom. [u.2:4.7] But the bloom is just a byproduct of its anger. [silence] [u.2:4.8] You have nightmares? [audible sobbing] [u.2:4.9] Ever seen a nightmare? Ever opened your eyes and realized the horror wasn't a dream? The terror wasn't gone? [u.2:5.0] I've seen nightmares. [u.2:5.1] They live in the shadows. [u.2:5.2] They've been watching. [u.2:5.3] I thought...It's foolish, I know...but I thought I saw a way. [u.2:5.4] That maybe we could win. Maybe we could survive. [u.2:5.5] But once you step into those shadows, it's so very hard to walk in the Light.[/quote] As you read above, this is the end of a conversation between Dredgen and an small group of unknown bandits? In the end it doesn't really matter because this was their end. The importance of this is the distinction between how he saw his gun and how he sees it, as well as how the darkness(physical form) is finding its way into our guardians. It tells them things that make them doubt the possibility of winning. Could the darkness(physical form) be scared? [b]Could it actually be worried that we will win this time and needs to resort to a form of espionage to actaully harm us?[/b] [i]Thanks to Jeuscifer for pointing out I missed a grimoire. It essentially ruined my final conclusion. I take full responsibility to everyone who misread this post and came to wrong conclusions, I will bumo everyone who commented the others I'm sorry.[/i] With the new information I feel it's safe to assume Dredgen Yor is NOT Jaren Ward. I'm not willing to entirely wipe that theory off though. It still would make sense because no body has been seen, only thought about. While I say that, it is still most likely that Dredgen is separate and killed Jaren. Shin, loving Jaren like a father will no doubt break the rules of “How to Become a Guardian” because he never died! There is no doubt in my mind that Shin would take up The Last Word and swear a vengence on the killer of Jaren Ward. But really, what if we find that there is no body? How unlikely is it that Jaren found a new and more impressive gun? And simply cast aside The Last Word for Shin to find? Like I said, it's most likely that Dredgen killed Jaren and so on, but you can not denounce this as a possibility. Thanks for reading, this is your friendly neighborhood AnonPig, and I'd just like to take this moment to say margaritas are not gay! [b]screw you dad![/b] . [b]as this is still being read and liked and bumped I thought I'd shamelessly plug my Twitter account here, @AnonPig for all updates and links to projects I will be working on from this point. I will no longer be posting on forums due to recent events that lead to a ban, thankyou for your time.[/b] [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/115658936]AnonPig's Theories Archived[/url]

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  • I made my own post about this and someone referred me to you, see what you think of it, ours seems pretty similar... This is my interpretation of the grimoire on the subject of the last word and thorn, this is not anything official but I can say with a fair bit of confidence that the majority of this is accurate... The card "GHOST FRAGMENT: THORN" is just back story for Dredgen Yor. First let's start with the card "GHOST FRAGMENT: THE LAST WORD": In this card a man is looking back at his time as a child, I assume this child to be Renegade Hunter Shin Malphur and I will explain exactly why later, but for now I'll work off the assumption that he in fact is. It was set in the city Palamon and he describes it's strife, mainly back story to set the scene. The important part of this card is the quote at the end "Until two men entered my world. One a light. The other the darkest shadow I would ever know.", I'd say "One a light" of course refers to Jaren Ward - The owner of the last word, and "The other the darkest shadow I would ever know", refers quite clearly to Dredgen Yor - The owner of the Thorn. When looking at the card "GHOST FRAGMENT: THE LAST WORD 2", you can see that the first paragraph backs my claim that "One a light" refers to Jaren Ward: "The man I would come to know as Jaren Ward, my third father and quite possibly my closest friend, came to Palamon from the south. I was just a boy...", this states that Jaren did in fact come to Palamon while the writer was a child, when describing Jaren Ward the writer denotes: "This man was dangerous, but there was a light about him", note the use of the phrase 'there was a light about him'. Near the end of the card we can see the writer states "I turned back to the man I would come to know as Jaren Ward, the finest Hunter this system may ever know and one of the greatest Guardians to ever defend the Traveler's Light...", this is important as it shows that Jaren DEFENDS the traveler's light, this tells us that there in fact is no transformation from Jaren into Dredgen as many speculate. And that The Last Word doesn't change into Thorn, this is because Dredgen has always owned Thorn/Rose and now we can deduct that Jaren and Dredgen are not the same person (more proof if you want later). At the end of the card Jaren hands the boy The Last Word and the boy states "That was the first time I held "Last Word," but, unfortunately, not the last.", this is important later. For this part 2 Grimoire cards are important as they reinforce eachother, Let's first start with "GHOST FRAGMENT: THORN 2": In this card there are 4 individuals referred to only in the format [u.1:x.x], [u.2:x.x], [u.3:x.x], [u.4:x.x]. The 'x's represent which line it is that they have spoken [u.1:0.9] means it is "u.1"'s 9th line [u.1:1.0] means it is their 10th line etc. u.1, u.3 and u.4 are not obvious but we can easily infer u.2 is in fact Dredgen Yor using "[u.2:4.3] Not many get such a clean view. [u.2:4.4] The bone...You see it. Jagged, like thorns. [u.2:4.5] I used to think of it as a rose... [u.2:4.6] Focusing on its bloom. [u.2:4.7] But the bloom is just a byproduct of its anger." In this we can clearly see it is Dredgen talking about his gun Thorn and how he used to see it as a Rose despite no real transformation taking place, further solidifying that Dredgen is not Jaren and The Last Word is not Thorn or Rose. In the card u.2 (Dredgen), kills u.1, u.3 and u.4. It is also important to note that in the card they spoke in a western style and were admiring Dredgen's gun (clearly hunters or the sort). To get an idea of who the other 3 individuals are we have to look at the card "GHOST FRAGMENT: THE LAST WORD 3", in this card there are several important sentences to note: "Trail wasn't cold, but lukewarm would've been an exaggeration." "Jaren had us hold by a ravine." "There were six of us then." "Three less than two moons prior, but still, one more than when we'd first turned our backs to Palamon's ash." "...it was his (Jaren's) death that rekindled my own fire." "...any enthusiasm we'd had was set to wither soon as Brevin, Trenn and Mel were gunned down." 1. This states they are looking for something or someone. 2. The story teller isn't Jaren. 3 + 4 + 6. This states there were 9 in the hunting party but 3 were killed, by the names Brevin, Trenn and Mel... But hang on, 3 people were killed in the card "GHOST FRAGMENT: THORN 2", so we can assume they were u.1, u.3 and u.4 in no particular order. So does 1. mean they were looking for Dredgen? Maybe... 5. Jaren is dead, thus is not Yor, also he actually died after Brevin, Trenn and Mel. (reason why is further down). Also in "GHOST FRAGMENT: THE LAST WORD 3", the speaker says"From time to time I caught its gaze lingering on me, but always assumed the attention was a result of the bond Jaren and I had. He was a father to me." and in Fragment 1 it also mentions "The man I would come to know as Jaren Ward, my third father" , using this, "That was the first time I held "Last Word," but, unfortunately, not the last." and ""Yours...not mine." - Renegade Hunter Shin Malphur to Dredgen Yor during the showdown at Dwindler's Ridge", we can finally quite safely assume that the boy in the stories and narrator of the "The last word" cards is in fact Renegade Hunter Shin Malphur. There are now 2 very important parts up coming: "A familiar ring. "Last Word." Jaren's sidearm. His best friend. Then another. A single shot, an unmistakable echo calling through the night. Hushed, cutting. One shot, dark and infernal. Followed by silence." And, "Jaren was gone. Off on his own." "He'd gone to face death alone." We of course all know the familiar hissing sound of Thorn, in this moment, Dredgen Yor had Killed Jaren Ward: "Jaren Ward lay dead or dying. And there was nothing to be done." Another important part is that Shin states: "Vengeance had grown stale as a motivator." alongside the earlier quote "Trail wasn't cold, but lukewarm would've been an exaggeration." we can strongly infer that they were hunting Dredgen Yor as a group. Now a very important quote is coming up: "Either I would find Jaren and set him at ease, or the other would find me and that would be a fitting end.", note how he refers to Dredgen as "the other", just as he says "The other the darkest shadow I would ever know" earlier on. This also sets up the scene for the showdown at Dwindler's Ridge which is mentioned in the "The Last Word" grimoire card. This is all I have for you guys so far, not sure if I missed something from somewhere in the grimoire. I assume that Shin found Jaren's body after Dredgen killed Jaren, took TLW and Shin hunted down Dredgen and they had a showdown at Dwindler's ridge. Who won? I'm not sure, my assumption would be Shin Malphur due to the phrase "Yours... not mine" which seems like something you'd say just before you blow someone's brains out. Either way both are currently dead.

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