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3/19/2015 11:14:13 PM
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God gets a lot of blame for what mankind chose. God created a perfect world and gave it to man to rule over. Man chose to disobey the one rule that God gave to man, and so sin and corruption entered the world. Disobedience spawned from pride and thus imperfection, sickness, disease, sinful natures, and death entered the world. God didn't want bad things to happen to us, can He involve himself to prevent them, sure He could. But we chose to have a choice. We chose poorly, and are reaping the consequences of those choices.
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I didn't choose shit, so why am I reaping anything.
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We live in a fallen world, Thor. Bad things happen to believers and non-believers alike. The difference is how we respond to and deal with them when they occur. I believe that the promises that God makes in the Bible help me through this life. I have to follow his commandments and instructions in order to receive His help. I choose to follow Christ's instructions. The Abrahamic Covenant is based on a lot of "If you'll do this, then God will do that for you". It's predicated on me moving towards God first though. Once again, our choice.
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His perfect world included evil talking snakes. How ironic is it that if you eat from the [quote]tree of knowledge[/quote], cause knowledge is the worst thing, either that or its the biggest threat to your beliefs, knowing the truth.
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You're conveniently leaving out the full name. It was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Can't have one without the other. We could have lived in God's paradise or live in a world where we choose between good and evil. Satan(the talking snake), tempted Eve and then Eve convinced Adam to disobey God. Satan's sin was pride as well, and since fell, he couldn't stand for God's favorite creation to be in good standing. So he influenced Eve to disobey and then Adam followed suit. Once again, God nor Satan can make us do anything. We choose to follow one or the other. Everything comes down to our choices.
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There is no good or evil, it's just perception of reality
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Meant to say God and Satan can't make us do anything. They can influence us, but we ultimately choose which master to serve.
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And who observed this happening?
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Theologians believe that oral history was passed down from Adam until Moses. Moses was the author of the first 5 books of the Bible. The Pentateuch is what the Jews call Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.
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Exactly, it like a huge game of telephone, things passed down orally are very likely to be wrong. And their is so much gross and awful stuff in Deuteronomy if you really think that should apply to real life I'd advise you to read it again. I could say something really awful right now and I bet you wouldn't like it, so I won't play that card unless you make me.
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I haven't insulted you once. I've stated my belief. I'm not insulted to you don't agree. I'm just stating what I believe. Believe me, being the son of a pastor(who also has 3 theological doctorates) and is the dean of a Christian college, he made sure that I knew what the entire Bible says. God was a much more vengeful and bloody God in the Old Testament, no debate there.
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Oh no you haven't at all, that's not what I meant. I don't want to say what would have because it is just simply immoral even though it kinda helps my point. I'm just not the kind of person to say that, so I won't. I probably came of as an asshole, just consider I've been replying to people for 9 hours straight and they've all said the same things. I don't mean any harm, I'm only human. I respect your beliefs, sorry if I came off to hard.
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You know what no, I won't play that card, to personal. Believe what ever you want
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But he's still all loving right?
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Yes, He is. He loved us enough even after we disobeyed Him to give us a way out of the sinful mess we created. He came and lived a sinless life and then willingly shed His guiltless blood for us. Now, He can't make us accept his sacrifice. We still have to choose that.
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And why do you believe this, the bible does not count as a reliable source. You need actual proof of existence and an old book does not fill that.
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That's where faith gets involved. I have faith that the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God. A lot of things in the Bible have been archaeologically proven. But there are parts of His word that we have to have faith in to believe. I equate it to my interactions with my daughter. She can believe me when I tell her to not touch the stove because it's too hot and it'll hurt her. Or she can not believe me and experience it for herself and learn that I only want what's best for her.
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Historical setting doesn't make the fictional story true.
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That's where my faith steps in. I don't need for the whole Bible to be proven for me to believe that it is true. There are some parts that are hard for my natural mind to comprehend, but I don't let that deter me from the whole thing.
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But you let the bible deter you from science?
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I believe that God gives us the knowledge and understanding that we discover on a daily basis. To get back to the original debate, the evolutionary theory hasn't been proven to be undeniably true. Scientists on both sides have neither proven nor disproven it. Evolutionists say that it is mostly proven, so it must be true. Darwin, in his twilight years, even admitted that he didn't believe it. Mankind hates what it doesn't understand, that's not a bad thing. But, I believe, there will be things that we won't ever understand because we would have to have the intellect of God. That doesn't mean that we don't continue learning new things, through science. I just don't believe that it will disprove God's word.
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How does it disprove god? And if all natural evidence on earth points to evolution then its safe to say its true. We still have mor to learn about it, but its true
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You're over generalizing. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence that help make evolutions case, but that doesn't make it fact. In the same vein that those that don't believe in God say they want physical proof that God exists, I would say that I will say that evolution is undeniably true if a monkey walks out of the forest and starts a conversation with me. Believe evolution if you want to and I won't denigrate or think you're dumb. I just would like the same treatment.
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Edited by Britton: 3/20/2015 1:41:26 AMOK, let's put it this way, show me anything that [b]doesnt[/b] align with evolution. Preferably something with scientific evidence.
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What I'm trying to say is that if evolution were fact, then throughout recorded time we would have an example where an ape SOMEWHERE would have evolved into what we know as a human. I don't have to disprove evolution. I'm just saying that evolution has to prove itself to me and it hasn't done that. I can present what I believe to you, some of it has been archaeologically proven, some of it has to be taken by faith. I don't get uptight that you don't believe me, why does it bug you that I don't believe you?
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It did. Were it.
