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originally posted in:Thorny Guardians
Edited by DarkChildOfLight: 11/14/2014 5:39:40 AM
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Dear Guardian, This Is Why You SHOULD NOT be Raiding.

Dear Guardian, As much as I like to help and encourage people I must stress a few reasons why you [u][i]SHOULD NOT[/i][/u] be taking part in a Raid on The Vault Of Glass. [u][b]1. You are below Rank 27.[/b][/u] The lower your Rank, the less damage you can do. And I mean waayyyy less! At Rank 25 you are looking at a 43% reduction in damage output! [u][b]2. No Mic.[/b][/u] You refuse to use your mic or you don't have one or people in your house are sleeping. For whatever reason, you are not on your mic. Communication is absolutely 100% critical in the VoG. Sometimes you even need to back out into Orbit to fully discuss and strategize. Impossible if you are not using your mic. [u][b]3. Party Chat.[/b][/u] Even worse than not having a mic is not joining (or leaving) a Party Chat. The game volume is less loud when you are in a Party Chat , as opposed to in game chat, so its easier to communicate without everyone raising their voices over gun fights (i.e. the Destiny chat). If you are in the in game chat and we are in Party Chat then we can't hear you and you can't hear us! [u][b]4. Leadership[/b][/u] Only one or two people should be giving out orders and instructions during critical moments and battles. Nobody else should speak over them except to call out things that change the game i.e. Relic, teleports, oracles, strong enemies, health, hazards, situation report, countdown (time's vengeance) etc. [u][b]5. Its not a Strike.[/b][/u] People often start playing the VoG and within an hour they are saying that they have to leave for work or to sleep or eat or whatever else. Please don't start playing if you haven't got the time to spare. This isn't going to be done quickly unless [b]YOU[/b] and [b]YOUR WHOLE TEAM[/b] absolutely know what they are doing in the VoG. Every time someone leaves, that person has to be replaced. The new person has to be 'worked in' and that can take a while. If someone else leaves 30mins later and the pattern continues then you can see how things can drag out. Yes, we have a week to complete the VoG and there are checkpoints but that is besides the point. Think about how you are affecting the team. Don't just join to get that one chest and then leave. [u][b]6. Weapons, Supers, Builds & Perks[/b][/u] Use what will benefit you and your team. This isn't the time to be using a weapon just because you like the look or sound of it. This isn't the time to be doing your bounties. This isn't where you level up your character. You are facing the Vex. They use purple shields. You need weapons and builds that maximise Void damage to break these shields. You need Titans who are using Defender. Hunters should be using Invisibility in the Gorgon's Labyrinth and Golden Gun during Boss fights and for Oracles. Warlocks can go either way. Customise your perks so that they help you and your team to get through. Don't be lazy. Don't be selfish. [u][b]7. Be patient with people.[/b][/u] Not everyone knows the ins and outs of the VoG. Everyone on the team should be welcoming to someone who is new to it and take the time to explain things before and as they happen. Don't just kick someone because they got it wrong 5 times in a row. People won't begin to get better until they fully understand what is happening. There are different reasons why the whole team gets wiped. Explain them fully. If things are not going well its a good idea for everyone to regroup in Orbit, ask how everyone is feeling, try to give encouragement and keep morale up. Talk about where things are going well and where things need work. Restock on ammo at the Tower and maybe take a real life break for 5 mins before getting back into it. [u][b]8. But I was invited...[/b][/u] Thats fine. If you find yourself in a fireteam of 6 and on route to Venus and you know that you haven't got time or that you are not ready, then please politely let the others know ASAP. That way you can get going to what you really want to do and the rest of the team can start looking for a replacement without anybody having their time wasted. You are helping the team out more by giving notice to leave right at the start. We've all been there. One minute you are doing your own thing then you get an invite to do something that you would rather not do at that time. [b][u]Summary[/u][/b] If you are unwilling to follow this advice then you are severely hindering your team's progression within the VoG. Please do the right thing and don't play unless you are willing to do your best to help everyone to get through it. I am writing this out of love. So that we can all benefit. Regards, A [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Clan/Forum/511412/0/1/0]Thorny Guardian[/url] P.S. If you can think of more reasons why people shouldn't raid [i]just yet[/i], please say below but be constructive. Thanks in advance!

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  • Well in all fairness to bungie they have catered to the working class with the raid so you can pick up where your team left off cause 70% of people actually have a life lol

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  • Level is debatable. Yes, most people are just overconfident but once I put myself out there to help some level 25 and 26s and they were a better team than most 29s I've had experience with.

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    • I have two friends who raid with me that have broken mics and we take care of the raid like its a patrol on the cosmodrome

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      • I've actually avoided the raid because I don't want to hold any groups of raid veterans back. Not that I think it would be difficult to learn, but based on what I've seen on these forums, people might not be friendly or patient with newcomers. I'm here to have fun, and a hostile environment isn't that.

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        • Edited by Landgraver: 10/24/2014 7:26:23 PM
          Your team gives out orders? Sounds like fun! /s

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        • Great post. Be patient with beginners! If I am honest enough to tell you I am not heavily experienced and you still take me into VoG, you forfeit your privilege to be a dic the first few times learning a particular role or new section

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        • Edited by CHlPPPY: 10/24/2014 2:38:35 PM
          [quote]Only one or two people should be giving out orders and instructions during critical moments and battles. Nobody else should speak over them[/quote] There's nothing that annoys me more than a person that's self-appointed themselves as the leader and proceeds to authoritatively order everyone around and usually when the team fails they say something like 'You didn’t do exactly what I said' or 'You guys are crap'. I don't think anyone should being giving orders, especially if they have an annoying voice.

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          • Raid is easy mode now, my team runs through hard mode and everyone knows their roles, we usualy talk about raid gear we want more than the actual raid

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          • Hey i'm just fine without a mic, usually i'm with other people (groups of 2 or 3) so i don't have to call out anything, just listen and respond with action. ;)

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          • Well written and well said!

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          • Hey dark it's Deaf again! My take on new raiders is this: 1. You are not -blam!-ing Rambo so don't go in like an idiot (major emphasis on this if on hard) 2. Stay close to the person leading you through through the gorgon maze/ if you know your way through, guide others in an orderly fashion 3. Crouch when you see a gorgon less than 10ft away from you 4. Call out pretorians 5. Shoot the big red/ green digital thingies called oracles. Oracle alive= Wipe 6. Jump to the mid block floating between the two portals in the last part when the portal people come out. ALWAYS 7. If you hold a shield, please tell everyone to go the the midblock as I stated. BE THE FIRST ONE THERE. 8. Listen, don't argue 9. The raid needs Patience and Time to complete. If all else fails, you need a Plan C.If you don't have one, completing VoG will be a huge Thorn in your side. My Super Good Advice would to be friends with a guy who is 30 with a Vex Mythoclast. With my tips, you too, can bring Atheon to say The Last Word he will ever say, "here's an exotic Hard Light, bleh" *dies* 4

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            • Can agree on most however point 1 is incorrect as far as it concerns the level 26 raid (so mention which you mean; normal or hard). IMO below 28 you have no business in the vault on hard, below 25 (24 for good players) you have no business in normal. On the other hand 4 level 29's should easily carry 2 others of 24 through VoG normal so it also depends on the level of others. Regarding point 4: Orders are NOT to be given. Unless only one or two are experienced you need to make a gameplan together since there is no such thing as one way to do it. With a fireteam full of experienced players each can have valuable input from other occasions that improve the overall game plan. Additionally all can learn something. I do however agree that only 1 or 2 should lead and summarize this team discussion.

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              • Going to say, a striker titan is just as effective as a defender here. On atheon, whenever I go in I use fist of havoc with death from above (helm of inward light) and shockwave to kill the enemies. That way, the relic person can focus on keeping us cleansed, and so he doesn't get killed by the enemies. Though defender gives void damage, you can make it up with a void fusion rifle and machine gun. Your fusion rifle doesn't have to be legendary to be good in there. I use a rare just because it has a moderate impact and a fantastic charge rate. The faster you can get your shots out, the better

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                • I keep having people begging me to help, like I know what I'm doing but I stand my ground and do what I have to , the amount of times I find myself defending a position solo while everyone else is running around like a headless chicken . I've only completed VOG once and that almost cost me my sanity, if raid gear is not garanteed I don't feel the uge to go back in

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                • Spot on brother!

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                • Holy shit, this is a -blam!-ing game. People can do whatever they want.

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                  • Absolutely spot on, another point I'd like to add to your party chat paragraph is while your in a party and one teammate has a friend that IS NOT a member of the your fireteam jump into the party and they both have a sidebar conversation while your trying to communicate, it's disruptive to all the other players and I would not have brought it up if it was a isolated incident this has happened on multiple occasions.

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                  • Edited by Hidefininja: 10/24/2014 7:15:58 PM
                    The only thing I really disagree with is the weapons. If my 30 Titan feels like using Timur's Lash on the normal raid, he can. Weapon damage doesn't matter so much on normal raid if you're solid. On hard raid? If you don't have a maxed primary, special and heavy, [b]do not waste your own time[/b]. Go grind some xp into your gear and then come back. As far as the gorgon's maze goes, it's incredibly easy to simply walk through if you know the way and the gorgon movement patterns. Just don't sprint, boost jump, melee, fire, throw grenades, etc. It's not actually hilarious...the second time. Also, play sword of crota to practice the relic. If Bungie does end up implementing the random teleport at the final confrontation, everyone will need to be versed in it's usage. God I hope they don't do that.

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                  • Great post!!! It's good to see some one taking the time to explain in detail how this works out...

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                  • i want to finish last boss Hunter lvl 29 PSN : GaZ_KsA_503

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                  • Edited by METALmurderer: 10/24/2014 7:06:30 PM
                    One thing I'd like to add: DON'T BE AFRAID OF CRITICISM If you can't take someone correcting you, don't attempt the Raid. If you do something wrong, and someone sees and corrects you on it, they're (usually) doing it for your benefit and the benefit of the team. Ignoring the corrections or arguing only causes tension within the team and negatively impacts how you perform as a whole Edit: Also, COME PREPARED Bring situational weapons. Don't use a Rocket Launcher if you plan on staying inside the shield. Icebreaker is a bad choice for Atheon as you get your 6 shots then have to wait for recharge, while a clip loaded sniper can reload and keep firing after a quick reload. Fusion Rifles may be good for trash but aren't necessarily good for bosses. Bring some Ammo Synthesis. Making an Ammo Run mid fight can get you killed, while a quick Pause/Use of Synth can be more productive for you and the team. Bring

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                  • Edited by SnypaX77: 10/24/2014 6:51:00 PM
                    Good post although I disagree with the mic part. I've run through a raid with just me and my cousin in a separate party chat from the other 4. We know how to do everything and can take cues from them if we actually need them. It depends on your fireteam, some people need more direction, some newd none at all.

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                  • completed it at level 25 with no mic the first week it opened. Half your points are idiotic!!!

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                    • I agree on the minimum level. If you are going with a group of friends, do whatever you want but if you are going to try to join a random group you should be high level. You can get to 28 just doing your vanguard, crucible or faction rep and buying a full set of legendary armor. Additionally, you should be able to pretty easily buy a piece of exotic gear from Xur and that with 3 pieces of legendary gear gets you to 29. You can do all of this within 3-4 weeks of hitting level 20. When someone who is level 26 is looking for a VoG group it just tells me they can't be bothered to spend a few more weeks gearing up.

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                    • Also: Don't go in without Heavy Ammo.

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                    • I can agree with some of your points, disagree with some of them, and a few of them are either common sense or I don't care about them enough to agree or disagree. I do agree that you should be a fairly high level. 26, I think, is a good starting level. I was 26 first time I did the raid. It was still incredibly challenging. But it was still super fun. The main thing I disagree with, though, is if they don't have enough time. Of course it's not a strike. If you're too self centered to think that if someone leaves and your progress on the VoG is going to be severely hampered, then it deserves to be. You have one whole week from the progress reset. For people who haven't done it just yet, they might need a few days. They haven't done it enough to go through it in one run. You need to be patient with them and just exit to orbit if they have to leave and continue as a full fireteam tomorrow with them instead of inviting a level 30 right as they leave. That's pathetic and disrespectful. Even if you only take 30-45 minutes a day on each part, you'll get done before the weekly reset. Get through the door, find your way to the Templar's Well, and there, you can leave and join someone else's fireteam so that you can complete the raid. Just be sure and help your buddy that had to leave finish it when he comes back tomorrow. I've been on both ends of the stick though. Sometimes I've been the guy who has to leave. Normally when that happens it's fairly late and we all agree we'll team back up the next day around the time we started at. I still haven't seen this happen lol. I've also been frustrated that someone had to leave, allowing us not to finish. I joined another team who was just starting and we got it done from first to last ;) and then when my original team was getting back together I went and helped them through the rest of it because I made a commitment to them that I was going to help them get all the way through it. And we did. I've even helped people I didn't know at all through the raid, after I'd already finished the raid 3 or more times in a week. But I digress; you don't have to complete the raid in one fell swoop. And I severely disagree with your statements about using mics. I do have a headset. But all of my playtime in Destiny, my headset was 5 states away. One of the good ones that has the in-game audio and sliders to adjust the volume of the game and voice chat separately. Would've been awesome if I'd had it, I could've gotten a lot more done. But I didn't have a mic at all. 120+ hours without a mic. I felt naked. But, I've still managed to complete the raid a handful of times. Many of those times I'd pay close attention to how many kills I get compared to everyone else. I was normally the top killer. I would also die the least, get spotted in the Gaze the least, kill the most oracles, kill the most praetorians, and kill the most supplicants. When other people would die I would keep a timer in my head and slowly work my way towards them while keeping the enemies down, or just flat out get to their orb as quickly as possible and defend their corpse until revive was available. But I was never able to talk. So I made use of pointing, sitting, dancing, and hiding somewhere while I SENT THE LEADER A MESSAGE that he could relay to the rest of the team so we could quit wiping. I probably sent forty messages that night. I was getting frustrated. By the end of the night, though, they knew if I wasn't moving that I was about to make it easier for them, and we were about to wipe. So they all jumped, and when I sent the message I waited for it to be read aloud and I jumped too. For those of you who think you absolutely need a mic to play the VoG: you don't. It isn't needed. There is not one area that requires you to open your loud mouth. If the first thing that comes to your mind is the Atheon fight, where you need to tell the three on the supplicant side which portal portal to open, let me let you in on a secret: you can figure out which portal to open if you just look at your radar. I was already opening the portal by the time the relic crew even remembered to let us know they were on Venus.

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