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originally posted in:Thorny Guardians
Edited by DarkChildOfLight: 11/14/2014 5:39:40 AM
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Dear Guardian, This Is Why You SHOULD NOT be Raiding.

Dear Guardian, As much as I like to help and encourage people I must stress a few reasons why you [u][i]SHOULD NOT[/i][/u] be taking part in a Raid on The Vault Of Glass. [u][b]1. You are below Rank 27.[/b][/u] The lower your Rank, the less damage you can do. And I mean waayyyy less! At Rank 25 you are looking at a 43% reduction in damage output! [u][b]2. No Mic.[/b][/u] You refuse to use your mic or you don't have one or people in your house are sleeping. For whatever reason, you are not on your mic. Communication is absolutely 100% critical in the VoG. Sometimes you even need to back out into Orbit to fully discuss and strategize. Impossible if you are not using your mic. [u][b]3. Party Chat.[/b][/u] Even worse than not having a mic is not joining (or leaving) a Party Chat. The game volume is less loud when you are in a Party Chat , as opposed to in game chat, so its easier to communicate without everyone raising their voices over gun fights (i.e. the Destiny chat). If you are in the in game chat and we are in Party Chat then we can't hear you and you can't hear us! [u][b]4. Leadership[/b][/u] Only one or two people should be giving out orders and instructions during critical moments and battles. Nobody else should speak over them except to call out things that change the game i.e. Relic, teleports, oracles, strong enemies, health, hazards, situation report, countdown (time's vengeance) etc. [u][b]5. Its not a Strike.[/b][/u] People often start playing the VoG and within an hour they are saying that they have to leave for work or to sleep or eat or whatever else. Please don't start playing if you haven't got the time to spare. This isn't going to be done quickly unless [b]YOU[/b] and [b]YOUR WHOLE TEAM[/b] absolutely know what they are doing in the VoG. Every time someone leaves, that person has to be replaced. The new person has to be 'worked in' and that can take a while. If someone else leaves 30mins later and the pattern continues then you can see how things can drag out. Yes, we have a week to complete the VoG and there are checkpoints but that is besides the point. Think about how you are affecting the team. Don't just join to get that one chest and then leave. [u][b]6. Weapons, Supers, Builds & Perks[/b][/u] Use what will benefit you and your team. This isn't the time to be using a weapon just because you like the look or sound of it. This isn't the time to be doing your bounties. This isn't where you level up your character. You are facing the Vex. They use purple shields. You need weapons and builds that maximise Void damage to break these shields. You need Titans who are using Defender. Hunters should be using Invisibility in the Gorgon's Labyrinth and Golden Gun during Boss fights and for Oracles. Warlocks can go either way. Customise your perks so that they help you and your team to get through. Don't be lazy. Don't be selfish. [u][b]7. Be patient with people.[/b][/u] Not everyone knows the ins and outs of the VoG. Everyone on the team should be welcoming to someone who is new to it and take the time to explain things before and as they happen. Don't just kick someone because they got it wrong 5 times in a row. People won't begin to get better until they fully understand what is happening. There are different reasons why the whole team gets wiped. Explain them fully. If things are not going well its a good idea for everyone to regroup in Orbit, ask how everyone is feeling, try to give encouragement and keep morale up. Talk about where things are going well and where things need work. Restock on ammo at the Tower and maybe take a real life break for 5 mins before getting back into it. [u][b]8. But I was invited...[/b][/u] Thats fine. If you find yourself in a fireteam of 6 and on route to Venus and you know that you haven't got time or that you are not ready, then please politely let the others know ASAP. That way you can get going to what you really want to do and the rest of the team can start looking for a replacement without anybody having their time wasted. You are helping the team out more by giving notice to leave right at the start. We've all been there. One minute you are doing your own thing then you get an invite to do something that you would rather not do at that time. [b][u]Summary[/u][/b] If you are unwilling to follow this advice then you are severely hindering your team's progression within the VoG. Please do the right thing and don't play unless you are willing to do your best to help everyone to get through it. I am writing this out of love. So that we can all benefit. Regards, A [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Clan/Forum/511412/0/1/0]Thorny Guardian[/url] P.S. If you can think of more reasons why people shouldn't raid [i]just yet[/i], please say below but be constructive. Thanks in advance!

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  • The mic things not required, I've done the vog multiple times without a mic, it depends on the team and if the player without the mic knows what to do to help out

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    • To debate #6, since its been proposed to me numerous times. Invisibility is, not particularly helpful in the Gorgon Maze. It can be, but timing is required, and you can just as easily time your movements without invisibility. You're probably better even just using the speed sprint to get through narrower windows. Gunslinger has a super which is more viable against bosses, true. It also does less damage and is more squishy then the BD with general use guns. There isn't a huge amount of long range sniping to be done, in the VOG to cater to the Gunslinger. Whereas the BD has the super that can wipe out large numbers of close(Showstopper) or midrange (Arc Wave) mobs while healing itself continously (Hungering Blade). Toss on super-speed to move with relics, cover fallen allies points, or hit Oracles. The Golden Gun is kind of easily covered by using appropriate heavy weapons (and prepping with a decent number of synth packs) to drop the Praetorians and bosses. I haven't been raiding with my warlock or titan to really dissect those, but the Super ability is probably not a big deal compared to a proper loadout of weapons. From an outside perspective, Defender seems like a terrible Super to use, as it prevents you whittling down the hordes as much as it keeps you alive (and Praetorians/Minos/Fanatics/Supplicants will come inside and break you)

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    • I agree with 99% of this post. But to tell people you have to be level 27?! Sorry I cannot accept that. People were only 25-26 when the vault opened and it's a level 26 mission. Do not tell people because they are not 27 or higher they cannot play it. Yes it is more of a challenge but that is the best part. I took 3 noobs in the vault a few days ago, 2 were level 25 and other was 27. We made it to Atheon before they became very frustrated and decided to finish on another day which is reasonable. If you can enter the VoG then you can complete it. I'm just saying guys, don't mean to sound rude. Don't deny players because they're only 25-26. Just give them better strategies and ideas on what to work with

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      • Edited by Spunky1993: 10/26/2014 8:42:16 PM
        wow, totally misjudged this article by the title. Excellent post OP, couldn't agree more. I take new raiders through as many times as i can per week on XBOX ONE http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/73856953/0/0. I always explain an area before it comes up, ask for feedback from new players, questions, concerns, thoughts etc. Yes, it's helpful if you and your friends help pull lower level players along with you. But, it's actually beneficial to teach those new raiders why and what they're doing, not just "follow [blank] and don't die or we'll kick you." I'm seeing and hearing way too much of that. And please people, understand that we have lives too. Just because we love to lend a hand and help others, doesn't mean we don't leave the house or have lives. I'm appalled with the amount of hate mail i get from party invites or game invites i dont accept... while im already in a party and doing a raid 0.o please exercise common sense. In the raid, out of the raid, and out of destiny. Respect. Edit: what system are you on OP? id love to raid sometime with another like mind ^.^

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      • These are things that I've encountered before and they are all true. Good post

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      • Pretty good list. Worthy tips for any Guardians who are new to raiding like myself. Did my first Raid this week but didn't get chance to beat Atheon due to a few of us running out of time but I found it thoroughly enjoyable working with absolute strangers with a couple leading the Raid for us Raid noobs. Even without a full guide I got the point quick. The Raid is intense. Can't wait for Wednesday as I should get the chance to have another pop at the Vault and this time END ATHEON

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      • Please check out [b][i]Clans Expanded (Communication, Headquarters, Vehicle, Dropship, Activities, Assets)[/i][/b] http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/75172093/0/0/1

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      • I don't raid because it's a waste of time. A lot of effort that translates into nothing of value. Gaming is for entertainment and when it becomes arduous, it becomes a second job with NO salary. I'd rather spend the 2 or 3 hours in crucible or goofing around with my friends on strikes.

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        • Do you mean no voice or no voice and ears? Because I've had people in group that don't talk but can hear and I've had people that don't 'hear' or do voice. The 2nd of those being the most frustrating as you have absolutely no communication with them.

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        • Disagree 9001% about the level 27 thing. Level 26 is the recommended level for a reason, all except the second to last encounter and the final boss, level 26 is as good as level 30. That said, even level 25 works. Raids are not supposed to be a walk in the park. Excluding people because they are slightly lower leveled is just lame - skill matters more than level to a pretty significant degree and people deserve at least a chance to show they can hold their own. Of course, they do have a huge damage and health reduction in that final room with the level 27 enemies, but it's perfectly possible to manage in that room as a 25, let alone a 26. Most of that other stuff is agreeable though. It's also just a lot more fun with mics... Oh, and if someone is a "leader" in the group, people should actually listen to them - or discuss what they think at a good moment. It's always a bit of a pain when people want to do their own thing when it's a team fight.

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          • HEY MAN YOU THINK YOU'RE BETTER THAN ME? HUH??!?!?

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          • Great post!!

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          • dont you mean 26. or is this for hard mode

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            • Well the mic isn't required I have almost beaten it without a mic

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              • I have no mic, and yet, I am still able to do the raid. Your logic is flawed.

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                • Also, if your mic is halfway down your throat and your voice comes through in 5.1 surround sound...please be gentle on our ears

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                • You're totally right, and by the way I'm looking for guardians who know the raid, Add me on PS4 - FearTheNazgul , Hunter lvl 29

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                • Well said. I have yet to beat it but I've gotten to the last boss two times. The first time was a mish mash of no clear leadership and people leaving. The second was done with good communication, leadership and the same 6 people. It took half the time to get to the boss the second time.

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                • VOG is easy I've done it many times with and without a mic it's not a problem.

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                • Actually, for the normal raid, no mic is not an issue as long as you're listening or know what you're doing. I've never been on a raid where everyone had mic and the problem wasn't the no mic man, but the ones not listening. Hell, one time the 2 no mics were carrying the rest through.

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                  • This is a great post - you've touched on pretty much ALL the issues that I've run into. Which is why I've only done VoG once from beginning to end. And I don't forsee that chance coming again anytime soon. The noobosphere is a dark place. I've done some 'pickup' raid attempts from the Tower and had a bad experience every time - with every one of the problems OP mentions. I'm sure some of you have run into the platform problem as well. Friends changing console family, current-gen, etc. It divides potential friends to play with - which becomes a major handicap when trying to create a six person fireteam that hasn't called me a nub for not being a pro at it, hollering at me because I don't know a role as well (basically, I'm the one that says "Yes, I'll kill Supplicants, because that's all I've ever learned to do - God help us if I get teleported") - or simply quitting out and leaving me there at the end - then likely finding another group to complete the raid with. I actually attempted a raid last week with GP'ers and not only kept hearing about how I was not doing my job sufficiently, but also hearing a constant tirade of insults between the so-called 'experts' in the group. Right at the end, they dropped me from party chat because I was apparently useless to them. Oh, and did I mention I got laughed at every time I made a mistake? Not hard to admit I suck at gaming. Not hard to admit I need coaching. Hard to find folks that get that. So I sit at my barely level 29, not being able to go any further. I've bought 2/3 of my gear and had dumb luck disassembling/farming/cryptarching. But now I'm stuck again - no raid gear. And I want to go raiding.

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                    • Mate you should have met my last raid group leader , he kicked half the team cuz we got it wrong from the 1ST time.....

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                      • Required reading for anyone wanting to raid. I''ve got by with 1 person on the team without a mic. But any more than that and it becomes a huge problem.

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                      • After reading the title, I thought how are you going to tell me to stop doing the only thing left worth doing in the game! Thank RNGesus I read the whole post. Couldn't agree more, this is not for everybody. Esp on hard, a group of good players can find it difficult to make it past the templar.

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                      • I agree with this entire list.

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                      • Absolutely love this post. Quite constructive and I hope anyone who is new to or thinking of Glassing it up reads this and takes it to heart. To emphasize #5... Make sure you have at least 2.5 hours to spare. Ideally, you won't be in there longer than an hour, hour and a half. But not being in a hurry to do something else will make you less frustrated if and when things go wrong. As for #7, this is huge. Maintaining patience will keep both your own and everyone else's morale up. There's nothing worse than hearing 1 person in the raid start hinting that they need to leave because a raid wiped 3 times in a row. Remember we have all had first times in raids, and we were all new. Show the same patience, understanding and willingness to impart knowledge that people showed you at one time. Last night things were getting a little frustrated at the Templar on hard, and randomly someone began to "sing" the Mario Bros. 2 theme. Most of the party joined in, everyone began to hum and sing their favorite Mario tunes in unison. Our effectiveness increased 100% as we relaxed and stopped stressing.

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