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originally posted in:Thorny Guardians
Edited by CHlPPPY:
10/24/2014 2:38:35 PM
22
[quote]Only one or two people should be giving out orders and instructions during critical moments and battles. Nobody else should speak over them[/quote]
There's nothing that annoys me more than a person that's self-appointed themselves as the leader and proceeds to authoritatively order everyone around and usually when the team fails they say something like 'You didn’t do exactly what I said' or 'You guys are crap'. I don't think anyone should being giving orders, especially if they have an annoying voice.
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Edited by Undefined: 10/24/2014 8:05:16 PMI agree. My raid leader needs to have a soothing, calming, deep voice or it just ain't happening. Still looking for the right one. I can't move myself to obey someone who sounds like a 14 year old raging nerd--it just isn't in me.
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A raid leader can generally give constructive critical advice, as a [i]good[/i] raid leader should be watching everything. ie. If people outside the portals are failing, then the RL should be appointing some stronger players to replace the tasks that weaker players are struggling with. As a RL, I generally hold the relic as often as possible. -- [i]why[/i]!? -it's easier for me to survey the fireteam and assess areas where we need improvement. Because of this, we can down Atheon on Hard (legit way) in 2 cycles; whereas, it takes most other groups 3-4+. A [b]Strong[/b] Raid Leader can make all the difference. & TBH, the whole [i]YOLO SWAG[/i] attitude of "we don't need no leader" tends to lead to longer completion times, which (let's be honest) no one wants. <3
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Well put!
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Thank you! c:
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Edited by JameZeroN: 10/24/2014 7:43:50 PMI'm going to assume this is your first MMO game that tackles BAMs. If you believe what you just said, I pray I never find you in my VOG Team.
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I've been in dozens and dozens of raids in WoW, and if me and my officers were not there to keep things organized things would have fallen apart. Granted kindness goes a long way when leading a raid.
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[quote] I don't think anyone should being giving orders[/quote] You're probably new to MMOs if you feel this way... but every successful Raid has a Raid Leader. Especially if it's a PuG. If you're running with a tight-knit crew well versed with each other's strengths/weaknesses and have played extensively with one another then a vocal leader isn't [i]quite[/i] as paramount, although can still be helpful.
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Edited by Snark Shark: 10/24/2014 4:32:53 PMFrom my experience, most of the raid usually falls in line instinctively and naturally behind the guy or gal who has a) done it before b) is just naturally a good leader in the sense that if people mess up, they say " it's fine, just do X next time. I'll remind you if you forget. " A kind leader is 100 times better than a bossy elitist telling you that you are stupid for messing up once. Even the vets mess up occasionally. c) is someone who inspires respect from the rest of the team and usually it's someone most of the team knows. I have two friends who are like this and I'll raid with them any time but if I go into a PUG, it's a 50/50 chance two different kinds of people will vie for the leadership 1)the person who should and 2) the person who thinks they are just entitled to because reasons.
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This is correct. I am the quote unquote leader of our VOG parties. To insult people because they didnt do it right is the wrong way to make it through a raid. Encourage and modify your team to help them is better way to do it. Now if we had someone come in and try to take leader role i would not argue but my team may. Knowing how to complete VOG is only half of it, getting the support from your fellow raiders and confidence in your team is also a big part.
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First of all, I haven't done the raid and have seen very limited run-throughs online (bits and pieces here and there) so I don't know all that much about it to be honest. I agree, someone "declaring" themselves leader is a stupid move, but from what I have seen it seems like SOMEONE needs to lead so that things are well timed and executed. I agree with Coast Girl where it should be elected by vote at the beginning but the person that ends up becoming leader needs to understand that no matter what happens to make the group fail it's ultimately on them. They're in charge so even if some a-hole is jumping in front of Gorgon's for sh!ts and giggles it's in some sense the leaders fault....granted no one will blame the leader for that d!ckwad. Blaming fireteam members for your bad leadership only further expresses that bad leadership.
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Votes are a dumb idea. This is not a democracy, the person with the greatest understanding of the raid should be leading it. That's usually what happens anyways. Generally when I group up with randoms I end up leading them through because I am the only person that is outspoken about strategy.
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I find that a lot of people are shy on the microphone, sadly. So even with a group of experienced people in a pug, they often need some prompting before they'll call things out, like we get to the confluxes and everybody just stands there and I'm like, "Okay, so who is going where?" After that things just kind of get going. Unless it's a group of noobs, I find that's about all the leading necessary. Occasionally a group will try something a different way from what I'm used to, and if it doesn't work a few times I'll speak up and say something like, "Another group I was in this week did this another way..." and usually at that point people will listen as I explain. But I wouldn't really call that leading. You're not giving orders or assigning people tasks, you're explaining strategy.
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Well, I am very hands on, I tend to assign people tasks and explain things. Its just the WoW raid leader in me. Its just when I get a group of randoms that like to do stupid shit that I get annoyed. For example, two days ago we were running the raid and I mention that I am taking out my Gjallahorn to shoot at the Templar, and some idiot starts ranting at me that the Ghorn sucks and that Truth is better. He ends up leaving because he thinks I am an idiot. Like really man? Who gives a shit.
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When you have people like that, it's understandable, but people usually perform better when they're doing what they're comfortable with. At least give them a chance, then if you fail a few times for the same reason, its time to switch it up, obviously.
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That works a solid 90% of the time I'm sure but sometimes being the most experienced doesn't make someone the best leader. For instance, maybe the person with the most experience hates explaining things to newcomers (or just isn't good at it), something that seems like a big part of leading a raid team with noobs on it, then I wouldn't want them leading unless they were actually the ONLY person with experience. They don't really want to, so why make/let them?
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You've never done it but you have an opinion on how it should be handled? Why do you think you're entitled to an opinion?
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Not sure if serious or sarcasm(satire?) because no tag, but if serious, everyone's entitled to an opinion. It's my right as a living being. Same way it's anyone's right to say that my opinion is invalid. Not that that makes them right (or wrong really) but it is their right to do so.
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An asshole is also your "right" as a human being. Doesn't mean you should exercise it in front of others.
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True, the world could use way fewer assholes. Can't make them stop being assholes though. Opinions however shouldn't be scorned but welcomed. All they do is express a different viewpoint.
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co-sign! If there is to be a leader, it should be a group decision who that is. It might even be different people for different sections of the Raid.
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Group decisions are fine if you agree before you start who the leader is. Running the raid by committee while you are in it is a waste of time and that is best case. Worst case it will lead to wipes, anger, hate, and eventually the dark side.
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I see what you did there!
