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originally posted in:Halo Archive
Edited by Lord of Admirals: 7/24/2014 7:48:09 PM
6

Gojira's Halo Ramblings - Without and Within

[quote]2. What is The Mantle? Transient At first glance, this kind of question might seem trivial. The Mantle is something the Forerunners can’t seem to shut up about. In short, popular belief is that the Mantle is a Forerunner religion that grants its beholder the task of guarding life. As the player companion Cortana states in Halo 4 upon reading a Forerunner glyph (the Eld, which is a prominent figure throughout the series]): “Guardianship for all living things lies with those whose evolution is most complete. The Mantle of Responsibility shelters all.” The Ur-Didact once again affirms the Forerunners’ belief of the Mantle’s granting of its beholder’s guardianship in Halo 4 with a taunt against our protagonist, Master Chief: "The Mantle of Responsibility for the galaxy shelters all, human. But only the Forerunners are its masters." All of this points to the Mantle of Responsibility being a Forerunner belief which allows the Forerunners to be the guardians of their galaxy. However, there are a few flaws with this (some are obvious, and some are not so obvious). 1) Why is there ambiguity among the Forerunners about its legitimacy and actual definition? Even amongst the Forerunners, there is debate about what the Mantle really is. Indeed, the Librarian herself mentions the Mantle, as the IsoDidact refers to it in the Halo 3 terminals, as a mere “fairy tale:” “The Mantle. You still hold to that [fairy tale] after all that has happened? After this thing has consumed a million worlds?” While the textual accuracy of Halo 3’s terminals is debatable, the fact that the Librarian has a personal definition of the Mantle is not. In the mission Reclaimer, The Librarian says that “… the Didact refused to yield our Mantle of Responsibility.” The use of the word “our” signifies a form of subjectivity and value judgement regarding the Mantle. Greg Bear, in Sparkast 17, also mentions that the Librarian has to “fulfill her version of the Mantle.” So ultimately, the Forerunners have personal definitions for the Mantle that vary from figure to figure and there is not one set interpretation of the doctrine. 2) The Mantle actually originates with the Precursors and the Precursors state that the Forerunners do not have the actual definition of the Mantle. The ultimate reason that the commonplace definition for the Mantle is not accurate is that the Mantle is, in truth, a Precursor creation and not a Forerunner creation. Indeed, the final Precursor essentially states that the Forerunners do not yet understand the truth of the Mantle. In Primordium, the IsoDidact asks the Timeless One whether or not the Forerunners’ demise is to be their punishment. The Timeless One responds by saying that “It is the way of those who seek out the truth of the Mantle.” The fact that the Timeless One likens the Forerunners’ strife as an attempt to “seek out the truth” of the Mantle shows that the original, Precursor definition of the Mantle is obviously not the same as the definition the Forerunners, even ones with as much foresight into Living Time as the Librarian, accept (should they have any to begin with). In Primordium’s same sequence, Chakas reminisces that the Timeless One expects Ur Didact to have a special perception of the Mantle. “For the Didact the ultimate meaning of upholding the Mantle was to never accept defeat. I sensed that the Primordial had expected as much and as it decayed over the artificial fleeting of millions of centuries- as its extraordinary lifespan played out in blind silence- it had gloried in it.” Perhaps most interesting is that even the Flood do not truly understand the Precursors. As Forthencho relays, “The Gravemind no more understands the whole truth than we do.” The logical conclusion is that the Mantle is something only the Precursors truly understand. A little reductio ad absurdum can also give us another logical conclusion: the Mantle is not what the Forerunners believe it to be. Since the Forerunners derive all of their responsibilities from their beliefs in the Mantle, all of the responsibilities they place upon the beholders of the Mantle are not necessarily the responsibilities the Precursors place on the same people. However, the problem is, the Precursors themselves never actually define what they mean by the Mantle. All the Mantle is, by the Precursors, is something that they want to have another species inherit. Going back to the interrogation with the Timeless One in Primordium, it’s very clear that the Precursors decide which species do and which species do not bear the Mantle. That is, the Precursors use their own value judgement to decide which species is worthy of bearing the Mantle. “It was long ago decided. Forerunners will never bear the Mantle.” “Decided how?” “Through long study. The decision is final. Humans will replace you. Humans will be tested next.” So if the Mantle is a Precursor term, and the Precursor definition for the term does not ever appear, there is seemingly no way to legitimately define the Mantle. However, there is one contemporary science fiction concept which does seem to be in keeping with the Mantle, and is essentially the same thing. Referencing 1. iii), the Chardin’s Omega Point theory is in keeping with every single philosophy the Precursors display in the series. To illustrate this similarity, the Precursors must validate every one of the five laws that Chardin’s Omega Point theory postulates. Transient 1. iii) A) The Omega Point must already exist in an evolving universe. The Precursors’ Mantle must already exist, considering how the Precursors are using their value judgement to determine proper inheritors. 1. iii) B) The Omega Point must be personal and it must embrace individuality and bias. The Precursors are willing to have new species ascend to the Mantle. They are willing to enrich the beholders of the Mantle with diversity and complexity. 1. iv) C) The Omega Point must precede the universe; that is, it must be outside of the evolving universe. As per Silentium, according to the Librarian, Gravemind states that the Domain/Organon precedes the creation of the universe by approximately 86 billion years. “The Gravemind tells us something impossible to understand—that most of what has been gathered comes from before there were stars. We do not believe in such a time, but the Mind insists … The life-patterns and living wisdom of a hundred billion years.” Therefore, Precursors themselves precede the formation of the galaxy by a fair margin, and they must therefore be extrauniversal. 1. iv) D) The Omega Point must not be subject to the same laws of space and time governing the universe. While there is nothing explicitly stating that the Mantle is not subject to the same laws of space and time governing the universe, the Mantle manipulates the entire universe, energy, and matter. According to Bornstellar in Halo Cryptum, “Precursors felt the Mantle extended to the entire universe, energy and matter as well as living creatures ... some say. The universe lives, but not as we do.” In addition, simple inductive reasoning with the (correct) assumption that the extent to which Precursors employ neural physics is far beyond that of even the extensive perception of reality the Forerunners harbor depicts Precursors as on another level of reality. 1. v) E) The Omega Point must be attainable and irreversible. The Mantle is obviously attainable as the Precursors are trying to allow humans to inherit it. The irreversibility part, however, goes without proof. There is nothing denying the irreversibility of upholding the Mantle, but there is nothing proving it either. In light of all of the similarities between the Mantle and the Omega Point and the fact that the Mantle does not overstep any of the five parameters Chardin specifies, the conclusion that both terms are synonymous seems like it isn’t out of the question. Therefore, the Mantle may effectively be the Omega Point.[/quote] Read the full post at [url=http://www.haloarchive.com/thelibrary/2014/7/23/without-and-within]Halo Archive![/url] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [i]Are you a fan of Halo Lore? Do you enjoy Halo's vast and engrossing story? Join [url=http://www.haloarchive.com/]Halo Archive.[/url] Enjoy deep lore discussions and compelling theories! [url=http://haloarchiveforums.com/thread/235/halo-5-guardians]Discuss Halo 5: Guardians![/url][/i]

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  • 1
    not even canon

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  • Edited by Jono: 7/24/2014 7:46:05 PM
    Its 343i's fault.

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  • [quote]holy sh1t look it's the color grey generic grey setting confirmed pandering to the folks who liked forerunner architecture appeal to nostalgia 3fail3idiocy breaking canon once more[/quote] [quote]holy sh1t look it's the DMR generic military character confirmed pandering to the folks who liked miltary halo appeal to nostalgia 3fail3idiocy breaking canon once more[/quote] I like these ramblings a bit more.

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  • Edited by Lord of Admirals: 7/24/2014 7:45:12 PM
    Maybe my response on the Archive will make some of you want to read it. [quote]The idea of the Precursors not wanting to hold the mantle and breaking the Omega Point is incredible. Our understanding of Halo seems to indicate that the overarching story is humanity gaining their place in the universe; inheriting the Mantle. But if the Precursors understand everything, and as a result don't want to wield the Mantle out of already knowing everything, does that not mean the cycle will continue? If humanity does attain the Mantle, what's to say that they won't make the same decisions as the Precursors. If humanity is the the species to wield the Mantle, it seems that Living Time needs them to exist based on the Omega Point. So one would logically assume humanity will reach the same level of understanding the Precursors had. But what then? Humanity will simply attempt to relinquish control of the Mantle. Living Time will again uphold the Omega Point and the "third stage" of evolution will exist again. Not as the Flood, but as something that holds the same position. Then what? Another species will be chosen and the cycle begins again. It is the "unbreakable" God Loop. Perhaps we've been interpreting Halo's story wrongly. A trope often used, one that I personally love, is to choose the option not presented. Break the established code. A lot of Halo media (Legends, Spartan Ops) seems to be pushing for the galaxy uniting together to face the Flood threat. Some of us have interpreted this as what the Precursors wanted. But if it was what they wanted, wouldn't they have hinted at it or outright stated it? So maybe Halo's story is building up to choose the option not presented. Right now, here are the two options being presented: 1. Humanity inherits the Mantle 2. Humanity doesn't inherit the Mantle While it is arguably true the Precursors have the true understanding of the Mantle, and the Forerunners had a biased interpretation, maybe the point of Halo's story is of switching from a nihilistic POV to an existential one. It would certainly seem so given the galaxy uniting together seems to be what the Librarian wants, and follows her understanding of the Mantle. If the purpose of life is conflict, and obtaining the Precursors understanding of the Mantle removes the wielder from the equation of life itself, then certainly a conglomerate group of united aliens all sharing the Mantle together would create a scenario where the Mantle can be upheld, but does not remove the wielder from the equation of life, effectively negating the need to try and break the Omega point. Life is selfish for a good reason. A group of species upholding the Mantle would effectively create perpetual conflict, ensuring the struggle of life never ends. The known sentient species in Halo are perfectionists. We effectively try to attain the unobtainable, or what the Precursors have achieved. If a group of species all wield the Mantle, conflict is inevitable out of the sheer selfish need for perfectionism. Then it would mean one of the thematic messages of Halo is that the struggle of life should be cherished, something that the Librarian and Didact both do on separate levels. Finally, the saying of "The devil plays with idle hands" is also true here. If you understand and know everything, there is nothing left to do. As a result the Precursors attempted to do what shouldn't have ever been attempted: Break the omega point.[/quote]

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    5 Replies
    • Accidentally made it private. Fixed that.

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    • TL;DR This breaks canon

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