When do Jaren and Dredgen ever get mentioned being at the same place aside from simple associations? Palamons ashes refers to the ruined city once the despot Loken was killed by Ward. Dredgen Yor was hunted for killing Pahanin Errata, not the guys in the bar. Why would Shin Malphur say "Your's not mine" to Dredgen when he didn't even know the reference to begin with? I never claimed thorn came from TLW; I said that Jaren came in possession of the Thorn (a Rose as he first saw it) on the moon before being corrupted by it slowly. When you do the Thorn bounty you never actually use the weapon but it still mentions it whispering to you; trying to corrupt you before the cleansing. We don't know of any other historical men who could have transformed into such a formidable hunter, Ward was the greatest ever and Yor dethroned the greatest crucible champion ever.