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1/7/2015 4:25:16 PM
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Cheesers are people who exploit game mechanics and environments to win without damaging the enemy, usually a boss, until it dies. The fight isn't hard, you're correct, but it also has no loot drop. We bypass it because it's pointless and a waste of ammo. Unless someone has a save from another run through earlier in the weekly reset, we will have to do it once at least. It's no different than bypassing the confluxes in the VoG. That fight was easy as well, but no loot, hence we skipped it when the opportunity was available. Like you said, it's easy, so what's the big deal? Not like we are going to get stopped at Ir Yut and not reach Crota...
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I see where you're coming from. My justification for cheesing the Templar in VoG was how many times we had (and still do, honestly) get our time wasted from Atheon glitches. We wiped so many times when Atheon was almost dead because of an oracle dying but not registering, or the shield suddenly dropping or not enough people getting ported. I think the concern is that people who think like you are rare. Most are just trying to get to the loot, but these same people complain about the game being too short or not being enriching or long enough, or the story being lame. Ir Yut and the soul of Crota and the demise of Crota is cool imo. I think the concern is more focused on the fact that if there are people in a group that haven't done it, they'll never learn and will be left out to dry, cheese begets cheese by nature, which is damaging to the community. And the same people who I know for a fact cheesed Atheon also came onto the forums and complained about how the raid was BS and too short and how there wasn't anything to do end-game. Well, end-game takes a lot longer when you have to have 6 competent and leveled players. You just can't teach fulfillment by a completed challenge, and I think many of the community's gamers don't know how to appreciate that. I don't think it's the act itself as much as the qualitative repercussions of cheesing.
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Edited by SilverCyric: 1/7/2015 4:47:10 PMI like your point! You're very right about people not knowing what to do. I have a 6 man raid team that we have run with every week since nearly the VoG hard mode drop. But there were a few situations, when helping other mates through that we noticed some didn't know what to do because we were all used to it for so long. Good story. My raid mate has a brother in law. We have run him through VoG multiple times, and on Hard as well, but it wasn't until recently we discovered he still needed to learn. We started taking him through normal at level 23, and hard at level 27, but we had him jump off and die, so he could watch us, learn and not get teleported. Now he's 31, and we ran hard mode. We ended up wiping a few times because he no longer needed to die but still needed to learn. I applaud his initiative for his first teleport, he grabs the shield and then asks, what do I do? At first we were like whoa! What??!? Don't know what to do?? Then he was well y'all have me die and I've never learned the shield and I need to learn sometime. Oh shoot! Boy did I feel chagrined! But it totally proves your point my friend : ))
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Yea man, that's good stuff. I also have a main group and we raid together every week, but it's like you can teach a fight, you can't teach awareness and smart play. I'd take 5 guys who don't know the fight but who are smart and don't die for dumb reasons over 5 guys who know the fight but shoot rockets into detainment shields every time. The thing about VoG is that there were so many glitches. If you can get through 1 teleport, that's what the whole fight looks like, but if you can get through 2 teleports, you should be able to 1-shot the fight. My group has done it over and over and have almost never 1-shot Atheon, but it was almost always because of a glitch. And then a glitch starts to wear you down and hurts morale and then you start to make mistakes and then everyone has to get their head together and you get another glitch and it ends up taking 2 hours. Cheesing VoG, go for it if you've beaten it the intended way, but Crota? That raid is nearly flawless. Skipping a 3-minute fight as a means to 'save time' that's just BS, imo.
