I think most users want to find shortcuts because the rng system is screwed and the game is actually pretty hard if you don't have good guns, armor, or aren't the right level, and the grinding to get to that point is much too dull and repetitive. Honestly, as much time as it takes to complete the raids I'm not sure I will be playing destiny if they cut out the cheesing. Even with cheesing I don't get good shit! I couldn't imagine liking wasting 6 hours to get chatterewhite. I really just wish there was no cheating but the game was a tad bit easier. Or maybe everyone just sucks at gaming, it just everyone I've played with and myself.

Well non cheesing it takes us 35-40 min for VoG and about an hour to 90min for Crotas End