That's true, but in thinking of the group as a whole, it would just be bad to bring a bunch of bad listeners more than anything. A group of 25s could beat the raid if they all listened to the experienced 25, provided they're decent. The raid is supposed to be a struggle for first timers. Maybe it has gotten to the point that it's on farm for a lot of players, but it's [i]supposed[/i] to be hard. It really does just depend on what your group wants. If you're going for a quick run, bringing in a level 25 new guy wouldn't be fun... But I enjoy playing with new lower leveled players because they're actually happy to get the same stuff that other guys insist on complaining about.