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7/20/2013 5:48:51 AM
2
"Hey, they did this one thing, they're now beyond reproach!"
Hmmm, no.
I don't know how you can tell me that I'm misrepresenting PMs you haven't seen, but LOL, okay.
I don't want people to listen to me. I don't give a shit if they listen to me. I want them to act like decent human beings. And yes, I will keep making noise and "pointing the shame finger" until that's what they're doing. I don't care how many people hate me for it - I think I've made that abundantly clear by now. (And no, sorry - "you don't know how they were raised" isn't an excuse. I was raised by a conservative Muslim man who was planning to marry me off to someone I'd never met the moment I got old enough. Upbringings are only so much of an excuse.)
I know I've done more good than harm here, because I get messages from people all the time telling me that I've helped open their eyes and change their minds. I can deal with any amount of hate from any amount of people who think these issues aren't important in exchange for that.
English
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Yes. You're saving the world. Do it somewhere else. Please go.
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Edited by Bolt: 7/20/2013 5:58:06 AM[quote] "Hey, they did this one thing, they're now beyond reproach!" [/quote] Makes just as much sense as "Hey, they didn't do this one thing, now they're evil!" [quote] (And no, sorry - "you don't know how they were raised" isn't an excuse. I was raised by a conservative Muslim man who was planning to marry me off to someone I'd never met the moment I got old enough. Upbringings are only so much of an excuse.) [/quote] Like, really? [i][b]Really?[/b][/i] You're arguing that they aren't shaped by their culture? Please don't make a Nuclear Engineering major school you, the social activist, in anthropology; it'd be unbearable for both of us. [quote] I can deal with any amount of hate from any amount of people who think these issues aren't important in exchange for that. [/quote] And yet... you're moving off-site and declaring Bungie a lost cause.
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I'm moving offsite because Sapphire is moving offsite. But I do think it's a good idea. There's not much more we can do here. And you can try to "school me" in anthropology all you want, but people [i]are[/i] capable of overcoming conditioning (just like I and countless other people on this site have done), so no, I don't take that as an excuse.
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Edited by Bolt: 7/20/2013 7:32:58 AM[quote]people are capable of overcoming conditioning[/quote] Never said they weren't. But you have to admit that there was a time before you overcame it, just like there was for everyone else who did. Would you have wanted whatever helped you climb out of it to give up on you then, to declare you too far gone, and not worth the effort? Tolerance, Jay, is not all sunshine and flowers. At its most complete form, there is little to differentiate it from apathy. It means looking at things you don't want to look at, and trying to understand, to have empathy even when it isn't convenient, or rewarded. No one is going to give you an award for empathizing with angry middle class teenagers, no one's going to think it's worth your time, hell, some of the more extreme "progressives" might think it's counter productive. But it's that mindset, the idea that someone isn't worth your empathy, that causes every "tolerance" movement we've ever seen degenerate into a special interest group. The only viable conclusion I see from all this is that any given version of "tolerance" short of completely apathetic nihilism is an arbitrary distinction of preference. [I]We[/I] draw the lines in the sand. I don't, however, think that this is depressing. It means that the lines don't mean anything, yes, but it also means that we can cross them. If asked personally, I would probably agree with you on nearly every issue with regards to the rights of transsexuals, women, anyone. I think a lot of what happens in this forum is disgusting, and runs very contrary to what I'm comfortable with. I'm not afraid of it though. It's only hopeless once you give up, therefore the only reason to give up is if you're afraid different viewpoints will change or destroy your positions (a very real possibility with open-mindedness), or if you're afraid of being seen with the people you're helping. Ultimately it's up to you right now regardless of your past, but if you practice what you preach, I'd think that you wouldn't leave.
