Titans are better at holding down areas than any other class generally speaking and excel at close quarters. Warlocks excel at area denial, self sustain/ support, and air superiority. Both of those classes are more often than not MUCH more valuable than hunters in PvE either due to damage potential, team support, or survivability. And what do hunters have? The stat changes in EOF were a nerf to hunter movement and in several cases their class ability uptime. For the longest time, they could be easily outran/ outmaneuvered by the "mage" and "brawler/ tank" and I'm pretty sure both can still do this to hunters. Hunter supers are easier to shut down/ avoid than either of the other classes, some often don't even work right like Arc Staff and Moebius Quiver. No reliable, if any immediately available class specific CC like what warlocks and titans have with things like Shiver Strike or whatever the Voidlock melee is. Few to no methods of team wiping without 1-2 set ups first. So if they should be at a disadvantage in air combat, CC/ ad clear, boss damage, survivability, speed, grenades, melee, super, and even now class abilities on top of being the only class that actually felt the mobility nerfs from EOF, what else should they excel at that would have them live up to the "fantasy" Bungie wants of hunters? That fantasy they stated basically being they want hunters to be like the rogue/ sharpshooter. So... What do you actually expect? If hunters should be beaten in most if not every other way, then they need to excel in ways to avoid damage and excel in gunplay. As for your complaints about invis, Knucklehead Radar, and Stompees? This is literally the first time I've ever heard someone complain about KR and Stompees, and as for invis? Titans have their barricade which can give overshield or bolt charge. Warlocks have their rifts that can boost weapon damage or heal AND give an overshield. Hunters just get a reload or melee energy back. Which would you say is more valuable even not accounting for aspects? And invis is literally all Nightstalker aspects give. Grenade builds have been nerfed hard on hunters so not many people use things like Shinobu's Vow or Ahamkara's Spine either because their lethality isn't buffed enough or the energy returns aren't worth it. A melee build is only worth building into in pvp if you're using Athrys since any other ability/ exotic is too risky, is only good in PvE, or is heavily reliant on your weapon like Lightweight knives and SSHCs. So what do hunters bring to the table to justify either a nerf to their only effective means of survival- or at least building into on Nightstalker, or a hefty buff to other classes? Hell, the only reason people have even been complaining about invis for ages wasn't the ability itself but the frequency of it. And the only reason it gets so much usage/ complaints now is because: * On The Prowl gives it potentially on every kill and you can extend your invis by staying in the cloud. * Trapper's Ambush when combined with Omnioculus for extra melee/ invis and faster melee regen. * Radiant Dance Machines getting that rework, allowing it to store up to 21 seconds of invis at a time, not including extra charges gained after each use. The previous 2 points basically invalidate the current functionality of Graviton Forfeit, which is supposed to increase your invis duration, melee recharge, weapon reload, and class stat while invisible. The very exotic MADE for invis is worse than the others, and literally all Nightstalker has to offer is the ONE THING any complains about on it. Here's a better idea, wait to see what Bungie does to help every class live out the "fantasy" and how they, as they've stated, will address how reliant Hunters are on invis later rather than nerfing them into the ground while D2 is at it's lowest point ever or buffing two classes that already offer a lot more. Until then, if hunters should be inferior in most if not every way that matters in PvE, then it's only fair they "dominate" in pvp.