It was worse. In D1 it took 75 planet mats and some shards and glimmer (or whatever essence was needed) to level a weapon. None of it was for sale. It took hours of running around on patrol farming mats to level a single gun or armor. Then the raids. That gear also needed the essence from the particular raid. I hate cores in infusion. But, we are currently lightyears better than D1.

That was vanilla D1.

...yes... annnnd??....

That's not the version of Destiny 1 that people are referring to. So you're using it as a straw man.

No, just refreshing folks on 2 things: 1. Bungie will force a change upon us that will not be what is requested. They very well could revert the leveling system to vanilla D1. So, people need to be specific with their references. 2. D1 was not all roses and unicorns. There were bumpy roads. The rose tinted glasses are real for many folks.

Can’t save people from themselves. If Bungie is committed to dying on this Hill, nothing can stop that other than our surrender and accepting this substandard product. That is not a reason to stop asking for what we want and is a reasonable expectation for a game of this type.

Exactly. So, give feedback. Just be more specific. Otherwise we will end up paying 75 planetary mats, 10,000 glimmer, 35 legendary shards, and 2 (the newest, latest, greatest economic nonsense) Motes of Glory (which can only be earned by winning matches in Competitive (drop rate is rng, at about 1% chance for each win). Battle on guardian!!

Woah, woah. Dude we are NOT here because the community didn't give specific feedback. We are here becasue Bungie is obsessed with control...has spent 10 years fighting amongst themselves over what kind of game Destiny would be...and distorts any feedback you give them through their own agendas. The Agenda here is Bungie wants their game played a certain way....doesn't care if we dont' enjoy playing it that way....and will force-feed it to us if they have to. Vanilla Destiny 2 didn't happen because the community gave unclear feedback about Destny 1. It was because there was a management shake-up at Bungie in Year 2 of Destiny 1....and a faction of the company that saw Destiny as the successor to Halo...got control of the game, and probably the company. So feedback about the game got INTERPRETED through a PRE-EXISTING desire to create a game that played more like a campaign shooter and less like a loot game....with a PVP-oriented end game wtih e-sport quaility PVP. EVERY change that made to the game from Destiny 1 were the changes you needed to make in order to get The Crucible considered as an e-sport. Bungie and Jon Weisznewski just CHERRY-PICKED the feedback from the community that validated what they already wanted to do....and used that to justify it. So you get an AGGRESSIVE re-branding of the game....and complete RE-DESIGN of the basic game play loop and reward system that no one in the vast majority of the community asked for or wanted. Destiny 2 got made that way because that's what its devs wanted....and what a vocal minority of hard core competitive players wanted. Everyone else got forced fed a game they didn't want ...and ultimately didn't like. Which is why it flopped hard....and Bungie had to roll back all those chagnes in humiliation. To his CREDIT though, Weisznewski was self-aware enough to be willing to admit to himself and in interviews that he had done this.....and to accept the painful life lesson that its outcome was delivering. He was humbled (in a good way) by this...and he admitted that he was no longer so **convinced** that he knew what was best or what the community would like. IOW, he became a developer who was more willing to learn from the community rather than lecture. Whatever project he move ontl post-Bungie will probabaly benefit from this hard lesson...and this talented guy will probably do even better work because of it. But the same thing is going on right now with the Investment Team. Like Destiny 2s development team, they are determined to do whatever it is they want....and the community can just go -blam!- itself. Which is why we're locked in this curent contest of wills. They are determined to shove this core economy and Milestone system down our throats....and we're just determined that we're not going to eat it. So the issue is whether the IT will back down before they blow up the franchise....or AFTER. Those are the only two ways this ends.

See, that was specific! :) How will the maelstrom of wills end? How will the spring of summoning silliness surmise? Will Bungie bequeath its will of wrongs to the community of commons? Will the potato and pinnacle players partner to pummel their perceptions into purpose? Only time will tell. Only the TWAB knows for sure.

Yes...but I can be that way because I've been a daily player of this game going back to Day One of the first game.....and a daily consumer of information going back to the spring PRIOR to the launch of Destiny. Not many people can put their feedback into that kind of broad context....and they shouldn't HAVE to. The problem is Bungie's organizational character flaws...and unwillingness to honor community expectations. Dmg04 was a relatively new CM when he posted here back in fall of 2017 when it was just starting to become clear that Destiny 2 had no end-game....and it was not going to be accepted by the community. He said ---paraphrased----that Bungie had violated the community's trust...and that they would have to win it back. I replied to him that I agreed with him, and thanked him for his candor. Bungie had made an implicit agreement with this commuity that in exchange for putting up with Destiny 1s flaws, that Bungie would apply what they had learned to make Destiny 2 a better game and realize the potential of the franchise. Bungie turned their BACK on that implied agreement....and made an ENTIRELY different game....because that's teh game that those in power at Bungie at the time wanted to make. Then tried to leverage that loyalty and expectation that had stopped become inconvenient to their design efforts. The same thing is going on right now. Bungie is once again violating community expectations because they don't sit with the game that whomever is running the Investment Team right now wants to make. At some point this community is going to get TIRED of this shit from Bungie...and are going to close their wallets. ...and I think that time is coming soon.

For many, the come has come and gone. When Greedivision and Bungie split I posted a few topics about how this time was so crucial. Players were watching. They should have given out a bunch of free shit and created a free event or something similar. They should have engaged the players. Instead, they botched the game up and have pursued this insanity. So, people have left. I still play, but not like I used to.