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10/11/2018 1:44:08 PM
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[quote]Going to have to disagree. Sniping isn't meant to be a viable option all match long and at any range like it was in D1. Currently sniper rifles are really good in the hands of good snipers and that's how they should be.
In the current ammo economy they're also balanced well because it's more difficult to only sit back and snipe all match long since you have to push for ammo.
If you want pointers on great sniper rifles and how to use them, I'd recommend the newest episode of Crucible Radio with Joverated guesting.
As for shotguns, they're as easy to counter as they've ever been and probably the easiest since vanilla D1. There are so many great options to deal with them. Cammycakes put up a great video on it the other day, recommend giving it a watch.[/quote]
Can't stop a shotty when the hit from fing 15 meters and ttk even on a sidearm or smg 900rpm is still too slow on all headshots. Go play rumble with 3 snipers and tell me their fine, you're not gunna get even 5 kills
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Rumble. Sniper. Think about what you wrote there. If you think a PvP environment where you can sit back and snipe to victory in rumble is somehow okay, God bless ya.
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[quote]Rumble. Sniper. Think about what you wrote there. If you think a PvP environment where you can sit back and snipe to victory in rumble is somehow okay, God bless ya.[/quote] It was an example as the fact you can't go into any crucible game without everybody using shotguns
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Because most people who joined this game for Destiny 2 don’t know how to counter them. Learn.
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I haven't used shotguns for 4 years. I've never had any issues dealing with them. You can counter them with so many different options now and they only get 2 shots unless they get a kill. If a player dies to a shotgun (or any weapon) repeatedly in a match, that's on the player for not recognizing, learning and adjusting. Radar tells us literally everything we need to know. Last but not least, try a Fusion rifle if you haven't. They've always melted shotgun users, just no one uses them.
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If you have no issues dealing with shotguns then you are a console player. On PC Shotguns have no counter besides shotguns.
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Titan-skating can be a problem. Otherwise, shouldn’t be a difference.
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So let's jack up balance for the entire game for a platform that 10 people play on? Also, I'm not buying that as true. The counters are still there, it's just a ridiculously lower population so everything is severely skewed.
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Edited by Deltorean: 10/11/2018 9:03:12 PMdont think you realize what the problem is with shotguns: Yes you say that you need to adjust and i agree to a extent, but the way shotguns gain complete control over the map, chokes, defense points and objective is so much of an adjust its more of a RESTRICTION. I literally cant push at all in a competitve environment even after chunking them cause i know they have a shotgun around the corner. The problem comes from when you are not using a shotgun yourself. The adjustments you do restricts your ability to move around the map to the degree that you cant play objectives. and whena meta is so hard that it actively punishes you for not following it, thats nto a healthy state for the game. it removes player choice which is literally the principle of which games are built on.
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That’s map design... ....and getting outplayed. If you want play aggressively then you need a shotgun or an smg.
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”outplayed” OMEGALUL. Could you imagine what it would take in map desgin to kill shotguns? Yea gl with that map design
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Try the new map in Unknown Space. I played a Control match that was being fought with snipers and Jade Rabbits. The laughter of fools....
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Yea ive played that map several times in comp. And people use pulse rifles and shitguns in breakthrough. Snipers are garbage cuz of go figure
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Because the game mode forces you into close proximity. Of course people are going to use shotguns....
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Thats what im saying is the ISSUE. If youre not using a shotgun youre handicapping yourself due to shitguns beings such hardmeta
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No. You are handicapping yourself because you want to pick the [i]wrong[/i] tool for the job. If you are playing a game that forces you into close combat, and shotguns [i]arent [/i] dominating? You don’t have a balanced sandbox. You’ve [i]broken [/i] shotguns and they’re underpowered.
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Youre literally emphasizing my point. Not using a shotgun is literally just using the ”wrong” tool. Does that seriously sound like the game promotes variance and player choice? Where youre forced into using a certain weapon cuz its so much better than every other choice. Sounds like a nerf/chbge is in need if thats the case in a shooter
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You promote variety by designing maps and game modes properly. Not by breaking weapons. Destiny 1 nerfed shotguns 23 times and never fixed the “shotgun problem” because shotguns were never really the problem in the first place.
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Nerfing/buffing weapon really is how you promote variance. It allows other weapons to take thier place and have their own time to shine, this is literally exactly what has happened. Shotguns just took smgs place in the meta, therefore basically breaking SMFs as they are now completely useless. Bungie needs to have an active eye on the PvP scene if they want it to flourish, they need to regularly change and balance it without affecting PvE numbers, they need to put out patches with proper number that tell people whats going to be viable and whats not. And if people arent happy with a certain change, well hey guess what its probably going to be changed in a upcoming regular balance patch. LITERALLY just look at how league of legend does this. And this games PvP would be incredibly good, promote variance and be refreshing.
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Edited by TheArtist: 10/14/2018 8:47:18 AMWrong again. Adjusting the sandbox is how you [i]fine tune.[/i] Buffs and nerfs can’t overcome design flaws in the game. They can’t overcome repetitive map designs that all favor the same style of play and funnel people into the same fight at the same ranges. They can’t overcome game modes that do the same thing as the maps. They can’t overcome a designer who is committed to working off the formula of a [i]dying[/i] franchise (Halo), that is incompatible with the design choices they made for THIS GAME. They can’t work when you are working the wrong end of the problem. You can reduce shotguns range to [i]ZERO[/i], and all you’ll do is BREAK THEM IN PVE, while they’ll just work like shoulder charge does now in pvp. [b]Because you still won’t have fixed the real problem. That Bungie refuses to allow primary weapons to kill fast enough to limit shotgun usefulness to the range that it can shoot.[/b] Take distance off its range, and players will just start their rush that much [i]closer.[/i] Which is what happened [b]the twenty two OTHER times they were nerfed.[/b]
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Do you even understand how buffing/nerfing works? Changing weapon numbers allows others to gain the upper hand in those ranges. Buff SNGs effective range, buff ARs damage output, nerf pulse rifles flinching and/or accuracy. This is exactly how item dependent games work. READ carefully as im about to say what ive already said twice now. THEY NEED TO SEPERATE PVP FROM PVE. The game tailores to close quater combat, that of which you use in that range outmatches all other choices. Buffing primary damage isnt the answer since it will kill fusions and snipers even harder. And slowing down the sandbox movement will completely kill Cqc and without removing radar will force the game back into teamshooting. If anything they should learn to compromise. For the casual players that like to disconnect their brain when playing this game can be allowed to use shotguns or whatever in QP, meanwhile they should either remove special in comp or just remove comp. (On a sidenote, i really dont think you realize how much money game development costs, the initial cost of development doesnt even come close to the total revenue earned from the released product. They have plenty of money to put out regular patches/content, they just wont do it cause it doesnt inherently make them money.)
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Edited by TheArtist: 10/14/2018 9:33:18 AMSon. I forgotten more about how these games work than you could possibly teach me. Bungie has made it clear that they will never separate the sandboxes because they consider the unified sandbox part of the core identity of the game. Something they said repeatedly during [i]Destiny 1.[/i] Starting to see the pattern yet?
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Do you not realize this is the single reason pvp in this game is so trash?
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Literally everything youre mentioning is what I am doing, I got lunas howl solo with a 65% winrate and Redrix last season, trust me when I say Im way above the average when it comes to PvP in this game. Still denying that shotguns are underpowered is just delusional to me. The killfeed in almost every single game is filled with shotguns. On PC its even worse: you have ALOT more variables such as hearing and the general speed of which you can turn and/or react with. Pair that up with the completely unneccessary target aqusition and youve got yourself the worst PvP platform on the market. Shotguns put way too much of an emphasis on META. The game has been dumbed down to such a degree that if you even try to use something that requires the least amount of brainpower you will be outgunned by that of which is meta.
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Edited by TheArtist: 10/14/2018 12:24:40 AMOkay. You’d rather whine. So be it. Good luck with that. Problem for you is that Bungie went down this road with people like you in Destiny 1. So they know [i]exactly[/i] where it leads, and that the complaining never stops.
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Complaining will never stop. Its always like this with games that have standardised items and Metas. You handle it by adjusting things regularly. Just look at how league of legends does it, and that game is the largest game in the world on PC.
