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8/6/2017 7:48:26 PM
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If only we had SBMM, there would be more of a chance for people to reach trials, while also earning it, I stead of "good" players beating others like a seal
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[quote]If only we had SBMM, there would be more of a chance for people to reach trials, while also earning it, I stead of "good" players beating others like a seal[/quote] Nobody would go flawless if trials had sbmm. Well, the elite top 1%ers would but it would be insanely hard for the other 99%.
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In a SBMM setting for Trials the goal then wouldn't be flawless, it'd be 9 wins before 3 losses.
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[quote]In a SBMM setting for Trials the goal then wouldn't be flawless, it'd be 9 wins before 3 losses.[/quote] That would be cool
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The funny thing is, any time anyone has made an argument for it they have always countered with "That would just make it easier for other players and would just hold their hand". The fact is they are scared of facing players of their own or slighty greater caliber because then their little stream and carries would get [b]f[/b]ucked. Just look at how many "good" trials players complained and continue to complain about "sweaty" trials players whenever they get matched with them consistently.
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And their evil little business of carrying for money would be ruined
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Whether or not the trials players in question are scared of playing people of similar skill level, it doesn't negate the fact that the game mode of trials is specifically for finding "players that never lose" as per Destiny Lore. So what would be the point of having sbmm in a game mode which needs all players to be in the same pool in order to work? The argument that average or below average players will have an easier time and not have to work as hard to get to the lighthouse as the best of the best, is an accurate and valid argument. Not all players are equal. Not all players will beat the raid, because they don't have the necessary skill. Not all players will get to the lighthouse because they don't have the necessary skill.
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Edited by KitsuneSonow: 8/7/2017 3:40:21 AM"Because the lore said so" is such a bullshit reason and the fact that you and anyone else would dare hide behind it is absolutely ridiculous. Also, let's take a look at your very flawed logic. Your first logical flaw is that average or below average players would have an easier time. How so if they are getting paired with players of equal skill? They still have to fight for that victory so it would not be any easier. Going back to Halo 3, which I doubt you played there mister 2 years, beating an opponent of equal or about equal skill was in no way shape or form an easy victory and you needed to work for it and trust me winning 7-9 matches in a row even at the lower levels was no small feat. Look at any sporting event where the teams are near equal in skill and tell me those people don't put the work in it. High school players have a tough time beating other high schoolers, college players have a tough time beating college players, and pros have a tough time beating other pros. Their victories come through with good effort and good team work. If all the people that are "Good" at trials are as good as they say why not have their mettle put to the test as well? This is supposedly "the most competitive mode" in destiny, so why don't they want a real competition? Oh that's right elitism, carries, and views on their youtube/twitch...they would no longer be special in the game any more and people would know they aren't the best or even as good as they made themselves seem Your second one is the assumption that everyone that has gone flawless has gotten there on sheer skill alone. So tell me, are you just talking out of your ass, trying to save some face with this, or are you honestly ignorant to all the carrying, DoS attacks, lagging, and message spamming so opponents can't see their radar. I guess all those just fall under the "Necessary Skill" catalog though right? Any more bits of flawed logic you want to throw out there?
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lol that's what I thought
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Edited by Macha Tarvos: 8/7/2017 3:07:41 AMOoo I'm so glad you're trying to throw out the "logic" argument. Ok, so according to your argument, if sbmm was introduced, then all players of all skill levels will have equal difficulty in going to the lighthouse. This is technically correct, and I concede this point. You further used college, high school, etc teams as an example of the work that is put in, which is good because I was going to use the same example. So let me ask you this...why don't we award the 13 year old who won his local swim meet with an Olympic gold medal just because he had the same amount of difficulty as Michael Phelps in winning his race? The answer is because they are not in the same skill category, so the rewards should not be equal across the board. Now let's apply this to destiny. The rewards of the lighthouse do not depend on your skill level, meaning they are fixed. Since they are completely fixed, we cannot separate the community into different skill categories with rewards fitting their skill level. Therefore, the only option is to have everyone in Destiny, from all skill levels, compete for these supposedly prestigious rewards. Essentially what you're advocating for is a participation trophy for the kids who didn't ultimately make the cut. A kid who has very little athletic ability shouldn't be rewarded with a Heisman Trophy because "he tried just as hard" as the top high school athlete in the country. The hard truth is not everyone is equal in everything, and shouldn't be rewarded as such. Unfortunately that seems to be where the world is headed, but it is wrong nevertheless. So how's that logic workin out for ya?
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In a proper SBMM setting, the rewards would be reflective of their tier. Sure, everyone may get to the lighthouse, but the armor and weapons could be pink for the lowest tier, or the weapons with the "better" perks would be available at higher levels.
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If you think about it though, that's exactly what we already have. I was just explaining how an ideal situation would work for either side. Bungie already has a system like that in place. For 5 wins, you get an armor piece. For 7 wins, you get a weapon. But if you make it to the lighthouse, you get a weapon with a special perk that can only be obtained from the lighthouse, and you get an ornament for your armor which tells everyone that you have made it there. So in fact, there is a tier system of sorts already in place, but people either didn't realize it, they forgot, or they don't accept it. There is even a tier system in how they match people in trials. It's based off wins, generally. You win a match, you get bumped up to the next tier for your next match. Someone is going to lose, and it will be the worse team. That's just how things work with competition. What it seems to come down to is that people want the same level of rewards for having less skill. They want more for less and act entitled to it. And of course laggers and DDOSers are a factor, but they are still so rare that they can be written off as outliers.
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No, its not what we have. You can't have a competitive mode and allow players of varying skill to co-mingle. That's called [i]recreational.[/i] A true SBMM system will have matches based on skill, not wins. Think about it. How competitive is it on the first game of the card to match Kjhovey/Mana against 3 Noobs? Not competitive at all.
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The number of times I've had my 9th win be against tough sweaties and then the next day seen people achieve ultimate victory from our very first game is bullshit. Bungie don't realize it doesn't work. If I'm just starting a card I should not be going against people on their 9th win already. That's just -blam!-ed.
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[quote]The number of times I've had my 9th win be against tough sweaties and then the next day seen people achieve ultimate victory from our very first game is bullshit. Bungie don't realize it doesn't work. If I'm just starting a card I should not be going against people on their 9th win already. That's just -blam!-ed.[/quote] Actually, my son had this happen to him about 2 days after I had a debate with a guy on here that he staunchly claimed it couldn't happen. I told my son to record it, but of course he didn't listen to me. Smh But yeah, the current method of trials really only works effectively when there are very high numbers of participants. It allows for more evenly matched games early on, which means for most part the games get harder as the card progresses, like it should.
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Yes, that would be true if the goal of the game mode was to rank up (like in Halo). But that's not what we're dealing with. The goal of the game mode is to win 7-9 games without losing, to get a very specific set of rewards that is unchanging. So, like I said before, if the goal is one set of rewards, then everyone must be pooled together and compete within that pool. Is it a true competitive mode comparable to ranked Halo matches? No. Actually I'd probably call it semi-competitive. If you want bungie to make a ranked playlist and have it function properly then do that, and I'm right behind you. But I'm specifically talking about trials. Bottom line, if you can't make it to the lighthouse, focus on improving your skill and get better. I'm a top tier player, and I don't make it to the lighthouse every time. Either I pull my team together and try again, or I find a new team. Yeah it sucks, but shit happens. Stop making excuses for your loss. Suck it up and get better.
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No. -blam!- that. Trials doesn't work. I often go against people on their 9th win upon just starting a card. Don't defend it. Trials is broken and people game the system.
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I'm not defending the system lol, I absolutely hate what Bungie does with their matchmaking system. Trials is SUPPOSED to function so that you play against a team that has the same number of wins as you. Does it work as intended? Nope, not even most of the time. What I'm saying is people who don't make it to the lighthouse shouldn't bitch and moan and expect to be given rewards for something they didn't earn. This is a manifestation of the entitled attitude most kids seem to have nowadays and it's complete bullshit.
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Sure. I'm not complaining about not getting there. I've been a few times and have everything I wanted. I just don't like the mentality of it all.
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The mentality of what exactly?
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That the people they deem below them have no right to get to the lighthouse and those who have already been for the week on all 3 characters then deliberately go out of their way to screw other people's cards up. They live for destroying their chances. That and farming for kd. Imo trials should lock you out for the week once you've been to the lighthouse on that character.
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Edited by Macha Tarvos: 8/7/2017 11:46:09 PMI can see your line of thinking, but here's the problem with that... you're assuming the only reason people continue to play trials after going flawless is to deny other people their chance at flawless. You can't make an intelligent argument from that assumption. But let's just say that's what they were doing. So what? It would be no different if you ran into them when they were still trying for flawless. And if bungie did lockout all the flawless characters, by process of elimination, you'd eventually have little to no competition in getting to the lighthouse because all that would be left is the really bad players. Plus, the bad players can just wait till Monday if they see fit so they can bypass any challenges they might have in facing upper tier players. Using my Olympic gold medal analogy again: it would be like continuously having everyone in the country competing for the gold but once you win, you can't compete anymore. Eventually, the competition will be between elementary school kids because everyone before them is not allowed to compete. They'll receive the same reward as the true olympians, which is obviously not right. Sorry, but you don't deserve to have it easy just because the good players already achieved their goal for the week. And back when I used to play trials every weekend, I would play after my characters went flawless because I liked the competitive nature of the game and I enjoyed playing it with my friends. You're assuming people are out to get you and ruin your fun. Stop being a pansy and thinking you're special enough for a huge amount of people to deliberately take time out of their day to prevent you from making it to the lighthouse. Again I'll say, suck it up and get better. Don't blame anyone or anything else for you not making if it's purely because you couldn't beat another team.
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You paid no attention to my post. I'm not complaining I didn't make it. I know for a goddamned fact that people play it only to farm kd and wreck people's cards. I've spoken with those arseholes before. It definitely happens. I'm not creating some fake scenario to make myself feel better. Read reddit. The proof is all over there.
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I completely agree that what they are doing is unethical. I hate kids who farm for kd. And it's an asshole move for people to play trials with the intention of knocking other people's chances out. But guess what, suck it the -blam!- up. You're mad because your feelings are hurt. You can't prevent people from playing trials based on their motives. You can only play them and beat them. I read your post, and my statement still stands. Stop whining and beat them. If you can't, then get better. There are countless channels on YouTube with tips on how to improve your game. Shoot, I'll even give you some coaching if you really want. But what I won't deal with is people bitching about losing because their opponent's motive behind playing wasn't up to your moral code of ethics.
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It's not even skill level that is my problem. I used to do fine when I had a group to play with regularly. We weren't amazing but we got to the lighthouse a few times. They all quit though. Now I'm only playing with people who have never done trials, cant call out and have no team cohesion. I was only doing it last week for the emblem. We never managed to push heavy enough so that's the only node I didn't get. I got my emblem though. Which is all I was doing it for. People could still learn to not be arseholes though.
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Well like I said, you can't change someone's motive for playing. I get pissed when I get beaten and t-bagged. But I can't do anything about it. The best way to show them up is to win. Again, if you're on Xbox and want some advice then I can give you some tips. Just let me know
