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2/10/2017 9:38:52 AM
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It's a bad nerf, it's an unneeded nerf, period. Potential problems? Get real. Lets not pretend they actually play test anything, the players do that. This was one dude in a cheeky, online friendly environment, nowhere near a pub, that happened to notice something after his player character bit the dust. Your assessment is not critical thinking, it's speculation. You have nothing to support whether it will be easier to shut down, or harder. The logical guess is easier based on the sound reasoning that this particular individual was more than likely using a nerfed shotgun at the time. And heaven forbid we actually let supers be super. Someone might die in a video game or something.
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[quote]It's a bad nerf, it's an unneeded nerf, period. Potential problems? Get real. Lets not pretend they actually play test anything, the players do that. This was one dude in a cheeky, online friendly environment, nowhere near a pub, that happened to notice something after his player character bit the dust. Your assessment is not critical thinking, it's speculation. [i][b][u]You have nothing to support whether it will be easier to shut down, or harder.[/u][/b][/i]ou have nothing to support whether it will be easier to shut down, or harder. The logical guess is easier based on the sound reasoning that this particular individual was more than likely using a nerfed shotgun at the time. And heaven forbid we actually let supers be super. Someone might die in a video game or something.[/quote] The part I highlighted in you[i] original[/i] post, is what my entire point is. There is no possibility of it being harder. That's not an option. It's meant to make them easier to kill to coincide the fact that shotguns were hit hard. Shotguns are the ying to bladedancers yang. If you make one weaker without changing the other, you've indirectly made it overpowered. There's no way around that.
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Edited by Scorpius XX1: 2/11/2017 3:26:30 AMThat's completely untrue because as I said, one has nothing to support it. We don't know the degree in which these shotgun nerfs will have an effect. It's an overreach based on nothing. Not even a decent play test environment. Sorry but there are plenty of ways around that argument. Based on the information I have, I don't agree that shotguns were even hit that hard. And I think this is where our disconnect is stemming from. The question is, does the shotgun nerf warrant the nerf to Hungering blade, and based on nothing but the testimony of a few developers playing in a soft environment, I believe the answer at this time is no.
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If you're actually a day one player, you know that killing a BD after they've gotten that first kill has long been a point of complaints. The loss of precision damage, and complete loss of hip fire aim assist are the worst things that could happen to shotguns in terms of killing a bladedancer. Especially for other hunters who have weak melees even with a charge. Sure strikers and sunsingers will see only a small difference in terms of shotgun-melee trading, but that is also making the assumption that they have shotgun ammo. When in reality there will be much fewer shotguns even equipped, as many will flock to icebreaker or a side arm. On top of that, the common shotgun will be invective, because if you have your blade first, it's probably because you killed them. Hence they've lost ammo. So now you're talking about facing a shotgun that already had to get a headshot to shotgun melee a BD in the first place, except now it does no precision bonus damage. Along with the fact that their teammates probably have a less than ideal special equipped, or are shooting primary. That would be a huge bonus to bladedancer in its current state, and was likely obvious in their playtests (even though they're terrible, which probably exasperated the problem) [spoiler]wall-o-text OP Bungo plz nerf[/spoiler]
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Edited by Scorpius XX1: 2/11/2017 3:44:10 AMAgain you are assuming how shotguns will perform after the nerf. We don't have enough information. This is my opinion. Nothing more. It's their game, they can do whatever the heck they want with it. But based on the information I have, and the lack again, of a decent player test environment, I feel this nerf to Hungering Blade is premature at this time. I think it's an overreaction to something devs saw that they believed players might think of as being op or out of balance. Considering we have had Clever Dragon with high cal perks for five months, this pattern of logic is sort of amusing to me. And it tells me that they didn't like it themselves, not necessarly because they believed it was for the good of the game. If you have spent anytime playing this game in the past three years, you realize quite quickly how little sense this nerf makes based on Bungie's own sandbox philosophy. I look at actions, not words. So we disagree. No problem. Time will tell.
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I guess the only thing we disagree on is that I think the changes are enough to warrant the change to hungering blade on paper alone. I think it would've been more broken without the change than it will be underpowered with the change. All I know for certain, is that it sucks nuts for PvE no matter how you spin it.
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[quote]nothing to support whether it will be easier to shut down, or harder.[/quote] In what world would nerfing shotguns make BD easier to kill? If you're getting killed by primary* fire, even teamshotting, you're a bad bladedancer. *Nlb excluded
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A nerf to hip fire aim assist, and and even slighter nerf to ads. Shotguns will do exactly what they are doing now. The range wasn't even touched, only the rangefinder perk. So yeah, it will be easier without a shield regen.
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You don't seem to understand how much critical hits affect shotgun damage.
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And you don't seem to understand that a body shot from a shotgun at close to mid range in Destiny will still result in a one hit kill.
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Loll. No. A body shot at point blank with Matador on a full health max armor bladedancer will not ohk. Sorry
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Edited by Scorpius XX1: 2/10/2017 5:10:13 PMIs Matador the only shotgun in the game? No it isn't. Secondly, obviously no, it will not one hit kill a blade, but it will come damn close, and now closer, thanks to the nerf.
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Wtf. No. Not closer. They didn't reduce BD shields. And I used Matador as an example because it can perk out to max impact and range. So nothing can do higher damage in one shotgun bodyshot.
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Perhaps you should read the hotfix and respective patch notes when they become available. Or perhaps the stream itself. They talk about '' Hungering Blade '' in some detail. Ok? Have a good one.
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Hungering blade doesn't affect how much health and shields a BD starts with.
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I'm aware of that.
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So what about nerfing hungering blade do you think can make it easier for you to kill a BD?
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Edited by Scorpius XX1: 2/11/2017 2:00:15 AMYou don't have to run Hungering blade. Look if you want to get into the raw numbers then read the patch notes. I'm not going to do it for you. Obviously as a general rule you don't have to run it, you can run Encore or whatever. But if your argument, ( Assuming you have one ) Is that blades can't be one shotted you're dead wrong. It's been done, many times. With high impact snipers. The subclass is squishy. Blink has been nerfed, Razor's edge is broken and doesn't always proc correctly, the hit registration is still iffy, you have to run '' Bones '' because there is no decent jump in the tree other than blink which has been nerfed, again, that closes out any other exotic slot because, obviously Hunters need their movement, and now shield regen on Hungering blade has been nerfed in favor of a slight boost to health after a kill. The super will be much easier to team shoot. That's a nerf. Let us not also for get there is pve in this game, and blade is not even viable in pve. You try to take Bladedancer into any end game pve content with a team and you will be kicked immediately. And rightfully so. Any subclass in this game should at least be a viable option, Blade isn't. And the one place it could actually shine, it has been stripped of it's ability to do so. I mean look, you want to rationalize the nerf, go ahead. You won't be the first or the last. And you are entitled to your opinion. But if one is a day one player like I am, then you realize this game plays a heck of a lot different then it use to. It's less fun, and it's less satisfying, primarily because of nerfs. This is just another bad nerf that wasn't needed. I would like to thank the Academy.
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Day one. Congrats. Haven't heard anyone pull that up in a few mins. So good job. If we're having a dick measuring contest of experience, the overwhelming odds (since your profile isn't linked so that I can check) are that I have much more crucible time than you seeing as how last I checked (two-ish weeks ago) I was roughly #700-750 in overall crucible time. You seem to be imagining half of an argument and inserting what you perceive as my side of it. Which is beyond stupid. My point(s) is that a full health max armor bladedancer can not be ohk by a bodyshot by anything in the game except for sleeper and golden gun. [i]Maybe[/i] a crowd control or final round Matador. Maybe. I've not tested it, but either way that's extremely situational. So with no change to hungering blade, shotguns no longer dealing precision damage, and the likelihood of everyone in the group of enemies having shotgun ammo greatly reduced, bladedancers would have been given a significant indirect buff. If you can't understand that that's the reason for this change, then there's probably a lot you can't understand
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I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. Yeah I'm assuming half the argument because you haven't made one in six posts. Somebody has to get the conversation started. Or would you rather keep engaging in this condescending Merry-Go-Round? Your point about Sleeper is dead wrong. I know from that actual experience you so cutely dismissed as somehow being a lack of meaningful in game knowledge. Ummm but there is a change to Hungering blade, or have you forgotten the entire reason this discussion is even taking place? There is a lot I don't understand? That's cute. Kind of strange coming from you though since you don't even understand what we are discussing. Hey you are for the nerf, that's great. Lets agree to disagree. But if you just want to trade insults with no substance behind them, go find someone else. I'm not interested in playing keyboard warrior. And the truth is even if I were, you would lose anyway. As for the nerf, maybe I'm wrong, maybe it will be awesome. I doubt it, but time will tell. Have a nice day Champ.
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You're just sticking to your guns, when they have no ammo. A full health BD cannot be ohk by a bodyshot from a shotgun without final round or crowd control being active. Can't happen. The highest possible damage without precision damage is in the low 280s. Not even close to enough to kill a blade (roughly 390 would be needed)
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Go back and read the responses. I agreed with you on that point.
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I didn't read it after you edited it. But that doesn't change the fact that hungering blade changes nothing in terms of you killing blade before he gets a kill.
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lol I didn't edit anything. It's like the third or fourth response where I clearly state, '' Obviously a shotgun can't one hit kill a full health blade.'' I'm paraphrasing a bit, but that is basically what was said, with no edits. I mean, this is what I'm talking about, you have such a lack of a position that your only hope is to actually argue points that I agreed with? Wat? As for the second part of that response, I disagree, I think it will. But that is where we disagree. We done? Or do you want to argue other points I agreed with? Really this is becoming tiresome. Astonish me. Make an argument.
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Tell me what effect hungering blade makes before the bladedancer gets a kill. I'm just dying to hear this one. And I hate to break it to you, but it clearly shows when a post has been edited.
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Edited by Scorpius XX1: 2/11/2017 2:58:18 AMEven if it were, which I actually don't recall doing, has it occurred to you that it could have been due to a spelling error, or typo? I remember making the statement, and I remember the thoughts clearly flowing in agreement on that point. OK, I'm trying to give you something here, I agree with that point. Be gracious about it and stop looking for '' Gotcha's '' You are not going to outsmart me, ok? You want an answer based on how it works now, or how it will work after the nerf, you didn't specify. And I'm still waiting for an argument from you btw, set up questions is not a position, it just shows that you are out to prove me wrong, not prove yourself right based on the merits.
