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Edited by toughonstains632: 8/31/2016 3:57:24 PM
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OK, so your friends are proping you into their lobbies. I know it, I do it to my friends. They don't play nearly as well in my lobbies and sometimes it's disheartening for them. But you know what? When they go back to their lobbies, they start crushing it. Like hard. They all know that it's harder to play with me because they will get harder opponents...but they recognize their skill increasing as an offset of that increased difficulty. I never had SBMM to protect me when I learned to pvp in year 1. In fact, I finished all of the exotic questlines that had me go through crucible (including Thorn) and it was very difficult. Thorn alone was a two day (10 hour+ each day) grind to finish, but I did it. I used to be a 0.6 k/d player back then. From December to July of year 1 that was what I could muster. But the lobbies had a good mix of players. It had players that I could beat, and players that absolutely trounced me. That's where the appeal of crucible grew for me. I'd spend time fighting these tougher opponents match after match as they constantly domed me, cross mapped me with TLW or straight up shotgun rushed me. I watched how they played. They didn't break up lobbies back then. I'd stick with those opponents too, and stay in those lobbies as long as they did. I didn't care about my stats (I still don't, but I recognize they dictate the experience I have), and chasing them down became my goal. Win or lose, I got something, and thralling into them didn't feel as punishing because I learned from my engagements, and by the time TTK launched, I had gone flawless in ToO (Twice total), and brought that abysmal KD from 0.6 (and about 8 months of holding onto that number) up to a 1.3. Then in year 2 something changed. SBMM started into effect. It was subtle in September, noticble in November, and almost unplayable in December. My KD didn't change, if anything it slightly improved, as did my win-rate...but the game itself became significantly different for me. Not only was the gunplay changed, and I had to re-learn it...but the lag itself started to get so severe I had no idea if I was improving. I couldn't tell if my losses in my encounters were because of my own faults, odd weapon balancing, SBMM itself, or just the lag itself. Even if I found an opponent I wanted to learn from it didn't matter. It only took one bad game for the lobbies to break up. SBMM and its implications took away the challenge for me. That lack of consistency in gameplay made it impossible to tell what I was doing wrong or where I was improving. It also closed to doors to finding reliable opponents to emulate...because things were mostly relative in my lobbies. My average win percentage went up, as did my KD...did that mean I was having a better time? Hell no. People that argue that skilled players ''just want to stomp the lesser skilled players and not have a ''sweaty'' pvp experience in the crucible'' have it wrong. We just want to be able to play the game and experience the skill is it comes without lag. I'd argue that people who argue FOR SBMM want the same thing. They don't want to be challenged and pushed outside of their comfort zone because they're ignorant to the benefits of going up against harder opponents, or because they hypocritically don't want to go against ''sweaty'' opponents themselves. You want SBMM? That's fine IF the game had dedicated servers. It doesn't, so the game should never compromise playability just to isolate those easily intimidated and unwilling to invest time and effort into beating 1 or 2 difficult players that would be bound to show up in their lobbies.
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  • I was going to read the post, but it reminds me of the essay I had to write in an hour at school earlier this week. But I think it's good?

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  • I know people don't like reading walls of text, but I really enjoyed your post! Spot on my friend!

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  • Yes this is spot on. I didn't know at first that I was doing so horrible when I matched with a friend of mine because of his lobby. I was embarrassed until he explained that to me lol. Once we were done I'd play solo in pvp and suddenly be at the top. Constantly flipping between 1st and 2nd place when it would usually be last place while I was in his lobby.

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  • Yes totally

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  • Really 10hrs for thorn in crucible, I just got lucky with my void fusion I suppose did that piece in about 3 hours

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  • It was 20 hours bro. 20 damn hours. I was trash. Only had hunters back then too.. Chaperone by comparison was a cakewalk. Had that thing done in like an hour or two, and the shotgun part in one game (this was back in October...running uni/shotty) by straight up thralling it...lol

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  • I used a hunter too man, it sucked, I used my nades to prime people

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  • Great post

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  • Totally agree. We'll said. I too had a horrible first year but have slowly improved. I don't like the MM changes and get tired of the false green bars.

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  • damn good write up; I've been pushed to the limits of SBMM where nearly EVERY game has a red bar player making a mockery of all involved. Its sad, it's a sickness and it's siva.

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  • Well put, I relate 100% because I started with a 0.4kd and have finally started pushing the 1.3 mark and am over a 1.62 on PlayStation because I didn't have a death count to work against me.

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  • Im not as lucky as you. I had a .4 early in y1 (Destiny was my first FPS since GoldenEye 007 and Perfect Dark). At least I doubled my .4

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  • Honestly it boils down to practice, you just have to put the time in. Watch better players and critique your own play if you can. It goes a long ways

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  • This is really well said. What you mention that I think is so important is that "sweaty" players don't want to pub stomp necessarily. But just want a lobby that has a good connection, doesn't take 10 minutes to match make, and has variable skill levels. This way we could play against pros that teach us, but wouldn't have to sweat every single encounter.

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  • Wrong, SBMM has always been in place.

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  • [quote]I never had SBMM to protect me when I learned to pvp in year 1.[/quote] That's news to me. I thought skill has always been a factor in MM. Year one was great to me, as a mostly new PvP player. My K/d slowly rose to 1.2 in year one, but has slowly sunk since TTK. Is there an official Bungie source for the no SB in MM for year one?

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  • SBMM has always been there, it's just to what degree. I play enough crucible that I can literally feel when tweaks are made. How much do you know about statistics? I'm going to make assumptions that you know some of the basics than come up with a poor analogy... Lets assume the peak of a bellcurve of the player skill population peaks at 1000 (just an arbitrary number). SBMM determines the range of players you're able to match against. So with CBMM, anything goes...you can fight someone who hits a 0 on the skill rating, but you can also fight someone who is the best in the world...assuming they have a good connection with you, and queue for that same period of time. But with SBMM it limits the search parameters. Those parameters (or limits)could (and do) get changed rather frequently depending on player population. IE: If I'm a 1200 rated player, with SBMM, Bungie can have it set so that range of skill I can face ranges from 1000-1400. Or with heavy SBMM they can make it from 1100-1300. As you can see, the more the SBMM you have, the smaller the pool of players you can queue against....but you're less likely to face opponents that are significantly better than you, or ones that are significantly worse. So yes, there was SBMM in year 1, but it left those parameters to be pretty relaxed. Instead, they focused more on averaging out the teams (even though they still do that now). For example, if you had 3 900 rated players, 2 1400 rated players, and 6 1000 rated players, they would try and average it out so that the teams ''skill averages'' were about equal. They didn't just toss the 2 1400 rated players in the same group. Now, SBMM would work in theory with P2P if we had a massive amount of people playing the exact same crucible modes all the time. As you can see, by tightening up the SBMM parameters, you're only allowing players to be queued against a very specific group of other players...which leads to people being queued against people across continents if the population of players in that bracket is low. That's why you see an initial ''tightening'' or ''adjustments'' of SBMM after patches are applied. The population of the game increases, so Bungie responds by making the lobbies tighter to isolate the skill gaps because that population is more likely to have games with ''good connections''. The opposite holds true too. As more and more people move away from the game, the tighter restrictions they have on SBMM becomes a problem, and they'll start to ease up on it so that players can get ''good connections''. SBMM has two main variables that can influence how much it's implemented: Population of people playing the game, and what Bungie defines as ''acceptable latency, or lag'''. Year 1 had significantly more of a ''hands off approach'' in terms of adjusting those parameters. They kept things fairly open to not worry so much about population fluctuations, and depended more on averaging out the teams skill ratings.

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  • Very well explained , great post.

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  • Nothing poor about that analogy. That is probably the best explanation I have seen for how SBMM actually works in Destiny.

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    Stari
    Stari

    Online - old

    I would not say that year 1 was so much better, but there were periods, when it was almost normally playable.

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  • Edited by celeb2112: 8/31/2016 5:58:32 PM
    No, there isn't. SBMM has always been in place. A other poster's comment--- https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/204499951?sort=0&page=0

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  • Man, i can't like this enough. Well said.

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