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8/31/2016 2:35:49 PM
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My friends and I have had some weird experiences lately. Friend #1 is not a great PvP player. She would play with our raid fireteam leader sometimes (a skilled player) but a few weeks ago said she couild never play with him again, because she would get wrecked by the competition he was bringing due to the SBMM. Running solo she would do fine, would often be at the top of the scoreboard. When I play with her (I'm average), we have a lot of fun, and do well usually; I think our particular combo gives us opponents we can beat (like maybe our actual skill level is higher than our 'rating'). We had been playing an increasing amount with Friend #2; he's less experienced and has been learning, but has good gun skills. His stats have been steadily rising. We'd been having a lot of fun playing together (the three of us), winning a lot. Suddenly, playing with Friend #2 has become horrible. Last week he messaged me saying "Help!" because suddenly he couldn't win a match and felt like he was constantly running into MLG players. I wondered if he had gone up a tier in SBMM matchups when his skill level wasn't really ready for it. I joined up with Friend #1 and Friend #2 last night; they said they had been having a horrible experience and had just lost 7 matches in a row. Playing with them I was brought into their hell- we won one match but the rest it was like we were mired in mud. To me it actually felt like a connection issue (somehow my shots didn't seem to do damage and the enemies seemed unkillable). I messaged them that something seemed wrong. Friend #2 was ranting, couldn't understand how we were constantly getting dominated. I have no idea why playing with Friend #2 has suddenly become unbearable. It sounds like you're somehow caught in a bad part of the SBMM algorithm curve. As others have commented, I've seen a strong effect going in solo vs a team, and a very strong effect of having a lesser-skilled player or two on the fireteam. A few Iron Banners back, I went in solo and struggled with a 0.6 K/D over a few matches. Joined a team with four solid players and two really poor players (was common for them to have a 0.19 or 0.3 K/D for the match). The fodder brought in by our weaker players meant we went 12-1, and I averaged a K/D of over 4 for those matches. After that, I joined my raid fireteam leader (skilled player) and Friend #1; I had a K/D of 1.3 over three matches. Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that in that 12-1 run, the weaker players weren't doing great, but our team won and won- so it's like we were in a favorable part of the SBMM algorithm curve somehow, whereas you're in an unfavorable part (your team loses and you're not having fun). Maybe your friends are too high a skill level compared with the people I play with. Anyway, just some thoughts- and as many say, perhaps the only way we can get past these kinds of issues is to actually someday get good connections in crucible, so we don't have to wonder what is lag, what is causing the lag (SBMM forcing long-distance matchups), and see if a well-designed SBMM algorithm will work when connections are solid. I hope your health improves.
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  • BLAM! Yes this is a very good interpretation of whats going on. I join my group of low skill players and constantly get 25-30 kills per game. When I run with my skilled friends we get impossible to kill teams. Really ghost bullets all day long....

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  • My inconsistent play is actually a god send in this light. I'll go matches varying from .5-3+ k/d consistently inconsistent.. my theory is the sbmm servers just get fed up with not being able to gauge if I'm legend or a kindergaudian and dump me into the below average tiers in a "what the blam am I supposed to do with you?!" kinda way.

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  • Ha ha "what the blam am I supposed to do with you?!" I actually feel like I'm fairly consistent (except when I forget to hit crits, oddly) and that my K/D is a reflection of whatever matchmaking/lag issue is dominating the match.... [spoiler]Are you related to BomberFC?[/spoiler]

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  • Edited by PlayaSkillz: 8/31/2016 8:53:37 PM
    Thank you for sharing. Reading this just reaffirms my belief that SBMM is working and that people with different skill levels who play together in pvp will not have an enjoyable experience. Bungie mentioned that they try to keep all players at a 50:50 win/loss ratio and an even 1.00 KD. So your friend #2 was doing so well with you guys and on his own that he moved up and he has to do crap and lose A LOT to get back down to you and your female friend's skill level. It's BS. They're segregating players pretty much. If you all play together, no one would have fun.

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  • Yeah that [i]is[/i] what it feels like. We had so much fun the previous two weeks, but the past 3-4 days it has been hell. Friends #1 and #2 were raging, and they proposed quitting mid-match once last night (none of us have ever done that). They asked me if I wanted to quit, and I was of course busy playing (I don't use a mic so couldn't stop and send a text), so we stayed in.

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  • I am an average pvp pIayer above average at best please take my opinion with a grain of salt and respond with a respectful retort if necessary. I dont think they realize their want for a 50:50 win/loss ratio in the destiny pvp community isnt really their decision. To me it seems like their hearts are in the right place in their attempts to balance pvp, but using your power as the games developer to influence player stats to your desired goal rather than letting the nature of destiny pvp itself handle the food chain is in my opinion inherently wrong.

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  • I agree- artificial manipulation of a competitive game's results is cheating. In this case it's not even one player trying to cheat the other- it's the game itself cheating to skew the results. We shouldn't call it PvP- it's now P-v-Code-v-P or something.

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  • Coming from an above average skilled player to another, I have the same sentiments as you. It isn't right and they should bring back CBMM. SBMM wasn't the right decision in my opinion. It just made Destiny worst and even more frustrating. I still win most of my games but for everyone else, including me, everyone is having a hard time. It's not chill anymore. It's just do whatever it takes to win.

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  • 2
    Stari
    Stari

    Online - old

    It's just the combination of your internet connections, nothing else ;)

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  • I still remember your post (sometimes I reference it 'this guy posted trying different combinations of internet connection and friends he played with' when I comment about lag/crucible issues). I try to keep it in mind, but it's still so frustrating when all of the sudden it seems like I can't put a reticle on an enemies head while he seemingly two-shots me, or my shotgun shots don't register while I get meleed or hit with party crasher as the enemy runs away.... The subtle issues can be even more frustrating than teleporting guardians or getting shot behind a wall.

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  • 2
    Stari
    Stari

    Online - old

    I know man.......I'm boycotting Destiny for 8 days now and don't even play other games untill the new DLC. So dissapointed... Nothing to do in the evenings, so i play with my Galaxy VR. Did you see this Topic i have made:[url] https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/211237791?sort=0&page=0[/url] I'm such an addicted and competitive gamer, so i'm fightting for our right to play PvP fairly (for 2016). Last Iron Banner i couldnt even get Top Overall Score with my Titan. (first time in 2 years). That was the last straw that breaks the camel's back.

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  • I don't remember the post specifically- but the line about the compensator not working but they tried sounds familiar. I definitely haven't seen the update from Aug. 19. Have to check it out when I get home tonight. That's rough about the iron banner. I only started playing all 3 characters in IB the last few (only started using the Warlock and Titan in March) - I think I failed to get the warlock top score two or three IBs ago- I started saving the weekly bounties for the next IBs when possible, and since that's the hardest thing to do, I'll usually turn in the other two weeklies if possible (so I lose track of if I've gotten top score with any of the characters- I know I did for sure with both hunter and warlock the last one, because it registered as being superfluous since I still had the weekly bounty completed from the previous IB). Wow 8 days....every time I think I'm going to have a few hours free to try a different game (Metal Gear, Tomb Raider, Halo 5 at the top of my list), a friend gets online, asks me to do a raid or some crucible. But yeah, recently crucible has been excruciating. Last night I kind of wanted to tell Friend #2 to let Friend #1 be fireteam leader, in case it made a difference in the connection, but didn't want to offend him (imply that his internet is not good). With regards to my comment above- I will also say that while Friend #1 is convinced that it is SBMM that makes her experiences with our raid leader (the good PvP player) awful, I'm convinced it's a connection issue. I also never do well playing with him- ever. And I know that he thinks there's something up with his connection, because when things get wonky in the raid, he'll make me fireteam leader and will ask me to back out and bring the team back into the raid. Additionally, the best PvP player in my clan gets teased for having "Walmart internet"; they say they are joking (it's not actually Wal-mart), but we all know it's a crap connection. And he's the guy who goes to lighthouse more than anyone else in the clan. The thing that convinced me was that once we were running hard mode Crota, and three of us made it through to the last couple of lamps. Two of us died, and he survived, taunting us. But on my screen, as he was dancing on top of a bridge support, the ogres blasts were passing through his body (I dunno....does lag even affect a PvE enemy??). Something not right there.

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  • 2
    Stari
    Stari

    Online - old

    I'm looking at that kind of things, too. For years now.... Maybe Destiny 2 will be better and players with good connections will get rewarded, instead of being punished.

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  • Yeah, my brother-in-law set up my internet (he's an electrical engineer who works in game coding now) to be the best possible- best service, router, modem available. So I've never been concerned about it not being top tier. After I had read your post, I briefly considered trying to run off wireless instead of ethernet....just to see how I did..... But I'm not really that hardcore a PvP player that I would do that just to boost my stats. I mostly PvE, for fun, then do some crucible if a friend is playing (I think only 15% of my Destiny play time is in PvP). But yeah, after two years of lag and the volume of complaints, hopefully improving the connections is a priority for Destiny 2.......

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