100% AGREED. And Destiny was made out to play with YOUR FRIENDS. They didn't mention THOSE FRIENDS had to be on your same skill level or else you or they will get their asses kicked and have a not so fun experience. Fck them for trying to keep every player at a 50:50 win/loss ratio and at a even 1.00 KD like wtf??? All I know is that SBMM is AIDS and I prefer CBMM. Sure we still claw our way and fight for our win and sometimes dominate in SBMM but we can do that in CBMM too-it's just that we'll have a larger pool and a bigger variety of players to play against instead of the same skill level or better + lag (you can't forget about the red bars) ALL. THE. DAMN. TIME. CBMM CAN help you get better at a slower pace because you're playing against ANYONE mostly locally and not just SOME specific people who meet a certain criteria whereas SBMM is fast pace in skill even if you're matched with people at your skill level and you're matched with people from all over the world, you will have a harder time to learn unless you can learn quick and understand the mechanics. CBMM helps to an extent but the community can play together as a whole. SBMM is steep and isolates the community.

My friends and I have had some weird experiences lately. Friend #1 is not a great PvP player. She would play with our raid fireteam leader sometimes (a skilled player) but a few weeks ago said she couild never play with him again, because she would get wrecked by the competition he was bringing due to the SBMM. Running solo she would do fine, would often be at the top of the scoreboard. When I play with her (I'm average), we have a lot of fun, and do well usually; I think our particular combo gives us opponents we can beat (like maybe our actual skill level is higher than our 'rating'). We had been playing an increasing amount with Friend #2; he's less experienced and has been learning, but has good gun skills. His stats have been steadily rising. We'd been having a lot of fun playing together (the three of us), winning a lot. Suddenly, playing with Friend #2 has become horrible. Last week he messaged me saying "Help!" because suddenly he couldn't win a match and felt like he was constantly running into MLG players. I wondered if he had gone up a tier in SBMM matchups when his skill level wasn't really ready for it. I joined up with Friend #1 and Friend #2 last night; they said they had been having a horrible experience and had just lost 7 matches in a row. Playing with them I was brought into their hell- we won one match but the rest it was like we were mired in mud. To me it actually felt like a connection issue (somehow my shots didn't seem to do damage and the enemies seemed unkillable). I messaged them that something seemed wrong. Friend #2 was ranting, couldn't understand how we were constantly getting dominated. I have no idea why playing with Friend #2 has suddenly become unbearable. It sounds like you're somehow caught in a bad part of the SBMM algorithm curve. As others have commented, I've seen a strong effect going in solo vs a team, and a very strong effect of having a lesser-skilled player or two on the fireteam. A few Iron Banners back, I went in solo and struggled with a 0.6 K/D over a few matches. Joined a team with four solid players and two really poor players (was common for them to have a 0.19 or 0.3 K/D for the match). The fodder brought in by our weaker players meant we went 12-1, and I averaged a K/D of over 4 for those matches. After that, I joined my raid fireteam leader (skilled player) and Friend #1; I had a K/D of 1.3 over three matches. Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that in that 12-1 run, the weaker players weren't doing great, but our team won and won- so it's like we were in a favorable part of the SBMM algorithm curve somehow, whereas you're in an unfavorable part (your team loses and you're not having fun). Maybe your friends are too high a skill level compared with the people I play with. Anyway, just some thoughts- and as many say, perhaps the only way we can get past these kinds of issues is to actually someday get good connections in crucible, so we don't have to wonder what is lag, what is causing the lag (SBMM forcing long-distance matchups), and see if a well-designed SBMM algorithm will work when connections are solid. I hope your health improves.

I wish we could perform mutiny on Bungie. Just storm in their HQ with pitchforks and torches. Demand they remove SBMM and add dedicated servers.

Few iron banners ago, I was invited to a fireteam of 5 lesser skilled players (friend of friends). I was hesitant at first, but I couldnt decline them, because I thought I would be rude, so I joined for a couple of games to see how things went. Game after game I started getting 25+ kills a game. As long as I initiated, get a pick or 2; thus providing numbers advantage, we went on nice winning streak. That would be the only time SBMM was ever nice to me. Fast forward to present day... I hate SBMM with a passion for a while now. It thinks Im a god at this game and therefore rigs the match ups so I am almost always at a disadvantage. I always have to have my best set up in my inventory. When I dont have non-meta weapons on me, I get killed by snipers/MIDA/LW with insane accuracy. The message is clear.. You are guaranteed to lose every encounter unless you sweat your arse off.

Get good.

The problem is that there are certain rules of confrontation that more experience players use to great effect, but aren't obvious to novice players they're paired with. Knowing when to challenge snipers is one example (not peeking twice or at all for instance). When to disengage a firefight and escape. How to keep distance with shotgun rushers etc. It's like playing chess but not being told the rules and how the pieces move. Sbmm only works to improve gameplay if they know what they are doing wrong and can improve on it.

[quote] I am a lower-skilled PvP player, and I have come to realize that SBMM is really hurting my Destiny experience as well. The thing is, my best friends are all quite skilled in the Crucible, so, it hit me today in a bout of loneliness that I was avoiding my friends, because: If I play with a group of my friends, their great stats are a major matchmaking factor used when finding opponents for us to play against. That said, playing with my very best friends ultimately means a few things: I will get destroyed. (And) We are likely to lose when I go 2 and 15 and single-handedly cost my team of friends the game. So, as a result, i have been avoiding doing my favorite thing--playing Destiny PvP--with my very closest friends, which SUCKS. This is hopefully a little food for thought for those in support of SBMM to unsuccessfully make playing crucible as a lesser-skilled player more enjoyable (i.e. easier). Sorry for the lengthiness.[/quote] This absolutely reflects my experience as well, but for different reasons. I am one of the more skilled PVP'ers in my group, with a KD average around 1.38 (+/- depending on map rotation). I have friends who are much less skilled in PVP and only dabble in PVP because of it. When we DO PVP as a group, these friends often spend the match getting wrecked (and I never really care what their K/D is, we're just playing to have fun). It's even worse in IB, when they can't even complete their bounties while they are paired up with me. SBMM is driving wedges between people who typically play as a group due to varying skill levels, and therefore, it can make PVP a real drag. Instead of it acting to protect players by pitting them against other similarly skilled players, it is having the exact opposite effect: players partied with people who are more skilled PVP players are getting destroyed. The result? fewer players want to actually play crucible, even though, for many, it is the last activity worth doing in Destiny anymore. I don't think this is the result Bungie would want for their game. Matchmaking just needs to go back to CBMM and let the chips fall where they may. Sure, I could get matched up with a bunch of streamer elite PVP'ers, but I could also get matched up with a bunch of PVP beginners. That's just how the game goes and everyone deals with it. IMO, the only time SBMM makes sense is in Trials- where its Scorecard Based Matchmaking, rather than skill based. IMO, that system doesn't make much sense either.

I have the same problem, kinda. I loovee to play with a certain friend of mine (expecially Doubles with double bubble so we can cause some trouble and struggle for the enemy) but the thing is, he is as skilled as an acolyte (no offense if you are reading this my friend) meaning i have to do 95% of the work. (And the enemys gets 75% of the points for free)I get the way bungie thinks with SBMM and all, but fun and connection are inportand as well. It would be cool if bungie took connection as a factor while matchmaking, also a sit back and relax match every now and than would be appricieted.

This is why I can't play with my friends... They aren't as good as me and I'm afraid I'm going to snap and say something I regret when I lose.

Win one game with a 3.0+ then get crushed the next five games is my experience in PvP ): Plus if I finish on top of the leaderboard the guy on the bottom gets an Eyasluna, finish on bottom the guy on top gets one. The struggle is real...

Dude, I have culled my friends list to just sweaties that KNOW how to play and play like me, because of this BULLSHIT that SBMM has made happen. This world is a pile of crap and nothing will get better. I'll be amazed if Bungie even thinks this deeply about the PVP scene. My guess is they don't know the original networking code well enough to actually tackle the problem and fix it. Instead we get reskinned enemies, reskinned missions, reskinned armor, reskinned weapons, and more shallow shit till the end. I trusted Bungie once before. They have completely failed me now. Too bad Bungie is one of the better publishers of unique stuff. It's sad they don't have a sustainable plan to keep things good.

SBMM is horrendous with the way it's implemented in Destiny. Also, the PVP in Destiny is casual PVP, no idea where competitive PVP came from. What are we competing for? There are no ranks or leaderboards. Don't mention ELO because that's not even done by Bungie. There are no rewards for playing such highly competitive matches. There are no incentives. Also not wanting SBMM doesn't mean people want to stomp less skilled players, it means they want to chill and take a breather.

Cod adds sbmm everyone bats an eye and they remove it. Bungie ads sbmm and they don't do jack shit to remove it after the community constantly asks them too. YET THEY ARE IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE SAME COMPANY ACTIVI$ION!

I got reported on the forums for saying that Destiny is a mediocre game! Aren't I entitled to my own opinion! Just saying........ [spoiler]The cake is a lie![/spoiler] [spoiler]So is the pizza![/spoiler]

i have been with bungie since LAN competitions in halo 1 and most likely will end things with bungie after rise of iron. i have played destiny since the beta and i do love this game despite its faults but i was dissapointed they chose to include custom games over fixing the ever worsening connection issues we've been having as far back as at least halo 2 and it never seems to be an issue they address. i pay 200 dollars a month for verizon fios quantum 300/300, when i play my xbox is the only device i have using the internet, i dont stream and i dont ever use wi-fi so i have perfect connection and super good internet yet bungie is a constant hit or miss game to game for myself and anyone i ever speak to. many of my friends and i are normally easily 2.0 k/d players yet this game between lag, and getting put in games where you are already losing by half the score to have to try to turn it around, people telporting, shots not registering, ect are reasons why we can't take the pvp seriously. you can go from a 5.0 to 10.0 k/d one game to a .30 the next which is very annoying, and it isn't because you are getting better opponents or somehow the way you play magically changed from the game you just played. bungie will tell you it isnt on their side, try resetting your console, go play with your router, whatever they can think of but it does not improve. i wouldn't mind playing the same 10 people in my home town everyday if it meant i could get some kind of stable matchmaking. loving the game, all we can do is continue to play for what enjoyment we can get from it