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6/29/2016 3:19:53 AM
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so, lets say they nerf shoulder charge.
It doesn't one hit anymore.
Snipers who are hardscoping (the shoulder's prefered prey!): Get shoulder charged, lose most of their health, don't die, try to go out of hard scope and turn around to the titan, get meleed again before they can do any of that.
Shotguns, the bane of the knee-cap: See a shoulder charge coming: BAM! shotgun to their face, no shoulder charge for titan :(
all other engagements come down to these two things. Shoulder charge will remain to be beaten by what is was beaten by before, and since the titans can melee right afterwards it will still dominate what it dominated before.
lets say they nerf the amount of time it takes for shoulder charge to be prepared:
titans will continue to run in circles until it is prepared. nothing changes.
nerf how long it is active for in one sprint session:
Give's Mk-44 stand asides a use/ it won't matter because titans will still just run in a circle right before engaging. most titans can be running for a good 3 to 5 more seconds with their charge after the point they use it. Again, nothing changes.
have it take a melee charge: Titans will run overload and maxed strength for a 12.5 second cooldown on shoulder charge. it takes about 10 seconds for a titan to aquire a new shoulder charge target, so a 2.5 second delay. which they could use to run around in circles while sprinting to . . . you guessed it . . . wait until shoulder charge comes back!
no possible nerf or buff will effect titans ability to totally destroy what they used to be able to destroy and allow them to start destroying what they used to not be able to destroy.
so quit your whining, because we will adapt.
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SC is broken. 2.5 sec charge time, no melee charge needed, a dumb rinse repeat tactic is all you need. SC is indefensible in close quarter maps, because the moment the charging Titan comes into the room he just has to hit SC and auto lock/aim does the rest. And even if you shotgun him, his hurling dead body will still kill you. I was recently in a lobby on a close quarter map as the only hunter with 5 Titans. Lots of fun. SC attempts every 5-10 seconds. You run out of shotgun ammo in a minute. After that it is hiding.
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no, it really isn't. besides, say it is (which it's not), give me one idea for a nerf that would actually do something to the way striker titans play? and do be clear: It can't be beaten in close-quarters maps without a shotgun because striker titans are suppose to be the king of close-quarters combat! amazing right, a class designed to do something, has an ability that helps them do that thing! just a revolutionary concept by bungie. and the hurling dead body can [i][b][u]not[/u][/b][/i] kill you. it just flies harmlessly past or through you. and it isn't a rinse and repeat tactic. that is the theory behind it, but you have to do so much more to be effective with it. E.I: Avoiding sniper lanes, learning the flanking routes, watching out for shotguns. you have to know who can beat, how you can beat them, and if the time is right. so go into a lobby and try using shoulder charge? I'm sure you'll fail the first couple of rounds.
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As I've written elsewhere, I've been in lobbies (and I agree this is heavily map dependant), where an MK Boots SCing Titan won the match with a negative KD. You may die, but basically you can net a kill every 10-20 seconds. About class specific abilities - I could not agree more with you. That's why the weakest class with the weakest armor and the weakest super had this amazing concept of maneuverability called shadestep - oh well...
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oh yes, because shadow shot is the weakest super, and the wombo combo, hell, the grenades and smoke alone are enough. and remember, the garrison got hit with the same thing, so don't pull out the crap argument. no body plays that class how it is suppose to be played, for area control! sure, you don't get a lot of kills, but the super, smoke, and every grenade are designed for area control. you can dominate in control by forcing enemies out, and it is a support class. and a whole one kill every 10 to 20 seconds! where ever would I find anything close to that firepower?! oh right, guns, right, right. and you want to know the weakest super in the game? Fist of Havoc, want to know the subclass with the weakest armor? gunslinger. want to know the weakest class in general right now? warlocks. Night-stalker can be absolutely destructive in the right hands, but it is a support based class designed to back up gunplay, not override it like the other two hunter subclasses seem to do. (which is a fine way to make a subclass, but if all the options for one class are like that, those who play that class become dependent on abilities and when you introduce a support class, they don't know what to do).
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Oh and about the 10-20 sec Kills... Gunplay requires skill. SC with MK boots not (I recently tried to blink away and the auto lock of the SC made the Titan follow me into the air...)
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really, just try out shoulder charge in a game of crucible or two. you will be shocked by how bad you are with it when you first start out.
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And here I agree with you... almost. Like they say in sports: It is not a problem when bad athletes use doping, it is a problem when good ones do it. Lots of good players are now switching to Striker Titans. And lots of good players (and more so in the future) will SC you into the ground.
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And I will be fine with that. because I have my auto-rifle, my shotgun, and my peregrine greaves!
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Edited by TheCyo: 6/29/2016 2:06:04 PMAnd some open maps where you see them coming after they circle around with their MK boots for eternity. And because you mentioned it - we even haven't started on these Peregrine Greaves and the ability to kill every super in the game without even losing your melee charge :)
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I know right! check out these numbers: shoulder charge: 200 dmg peregrine greaves timed right: 2600 dmg. unstoppable mid-FoH titan: 2200 hp armor of light: 240 hp Illuminated blessing of light: 120 Hp Arc-Defense/Arc-Armor: 20 Hp max health at any given moment in crucible: 2580 health. peregrine greaves, timed correctly, deals 2600 damage.
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um, yah, gunplay takes as much skill as shoulder charge. whether that is a lot or none, doesn't matter. And yes, you tried to blink away. if the titan already got that close to you before you blinked away, he deserved that kill. and what about arc-blade, or the swords, or thunderstrike, or blink strike, or any other melee int he game that auto tracks targets!
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After the nerf, smoke is a joke and not useable for area control any more. People can just jump through it with a smile. Funny that you still can not jump out of a Defender suppressor nade... And yes, shadow shot is the weakest super. How many extra kills does your shadowshot net you in a crucible match on average - even with quiver? I like to explain the weakness of shadowshot with team talk in trials of Osiris: "I have my Golden Gun" - "Go wipe them" "I have my Blade" - "Go wipe them" "I have my Hammers" - "Go wipe them" "I have my Palpatine" - "Go wipe them" "I have my Arrow" - "Wait till someone uses their super - and don't miss the chest"
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yes, that is it's intended purpose . . . It is actually a very strong support ability. and I agree, the smoke needs a change. however, they should have it where you can't toss a smoke then nade faster than you can throw two nades to avoid the wombo-combo, because that is some OP shit. and you can jump out of a suppressor grenade, you just have to jump out quickly enough. and lets take a look at the suppression between the nade and the arrow: arrow, suppresses everything, weakens the enemies, forces them to look down while you wipe them out. grenade: suppresses: jump abilities melee grenade golden gun novabomb sunsinger stormtrance sunbreaker so 6 out of 12 supers? compared to 12 out of 12 supers plus a little extra. I recommend you stop using the super as a direct form of damage. start running blood-bound or blackhole, find a group of three enemies, and set up shot. take them down without trouble, and boom, you have an area under lockdown for a while. when it goes away, move to your next are with your smoke and nades.
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I always ran black hole - you know support! The story every Nighstalker will tell you is about 4 opponents tethered and you dead because of teamshot.
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ah yes, well that is strategy on their end. perhaps some back-up? support is only support if you got teammates. I'm proud of you using black-hole though :D
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You truly don't understand how useless shoulder charge would be if it's damage was nerfed.
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how useless? give me one situation where the titan couldn't follow up with a melee right after that they normally would be able to take down with shoulder charge?
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The majority of the time I manage not to one shot them and try to follow up with a melee right after, I typically end up dead. They normally survive. Best case scenario is a trade.
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how do you not one shot them with shoulder charge? how is that even possible? I mean, I'm thinking here because unless every single person you shoulder charge is a striker titan running unstoppable, then it should one hit everyone. and still, with unstoppable striker titans, you can nearly always melee right afterwards before they can get a second melee in, especially if you're running rain blows on your guantlets. I don't understand how it would matter?
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Yeah, there's such a thing as max armor Titans and Warlocks running around. Crazy, I know. Another crazy thing is that people actually shoot you when you try shoulder charging them! If your shoulder charge doesn't kill them, they can keep shooting you! Crazy how people do that.
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yes but warlocks can no longer survive it in anyway other than supering, and titans running an unstoppable build are far and few between. also, You are failing at shoulder charge already if you are letting people shoot at you. you need to flank, get your team to distract them, run infusion. trust me, you will do a lot better with it. and if you still have troubles with people surviving shoulder charge, just switch to peregrine greaves and jump before you hit anyone with it. if you time it right, aerial charge can deal up to 2600 dmg! (compared to the normal 200 of shoulder charge itself).
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Ram locks still exist. And I'm definitely running into more Unstoppable Titans than you are. Additionally, we must be facing completely different tiers of people. I can't tell you how many times I've flanked just for them to turn and shotgun blast me when I'm 1 foot away.
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huh. I still say try to use peregrine greaves, and use lift to do the jump. you can really throw some people off by doing that. just see if it helps eh?
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I never had luck with the Greaves. Whenever I'd try to use them, me being airborne always made me miss their hit box. So I just went with the Skullfort.
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I suggest the greaves. You have to learn a new timing pattern, but you get it down pretty quick. charge the charge Jump with lift smash their ram-toting skull in!
