No, your right, the red bar might not even know it's themselves who's creating the lag. I'm having that conversation with another guy further down in this thread. But that's not what I'm talking about here, I'm talking about the ones who DO know. You send them a message "you're red barring" and they keep playing anyway. They're messing with other people's games and they know it. Cheating takes many forms including creating a subtle chaos that throws your opponents off their A game. We all want Bungie to fix the issues that are on their side. We paid money we expect to get what we paid for. And it's sad that some folks don't have strong service connections in their area but if that's they case they're just going to have to accept that some things will be beyond their system abilities until things change.