Your the first person to actually analyze my post and give as reasonable response for discussion so I thank you for that. I'm going to have to disagree on the mida not being good at long range the mida is a good counter to snipers because of the mobility perk you can easily strafe in and out of cover making target acquisition difficult and peg the target with the 'secret' high caliber rounds that exist why? and I didn't say it in my post but one guardian running in front of you while your in a gunfight with mida isn't exactly relevant because it doesnt happen that often and for my post I was thinking 1 v 1 gunfights. If it's 2 v 1 the 2 should win anyway. the spam shots thing is if you're going toe to toe with another guardian a lot of the times my strat is to strafe in and out of cover to make them waste shots and with the mida the mag is too big to keep that up for long so theres no penatly for missing shots because you have to many where with tlw theres only 8 shots so you can strafe cover count the shots then attack mida has no such weakness. Also every weapon rewards hitting your shots especially to the head but they also penalize missing shots or prefiring corners because you usually have either a slow reload or a small mag with faster reload which is a weakness mida doesn't have. I agree with suros and monte beating in ideal range but most the time the mida user will stay in a longer sightline and pick you off before you get close enough or just run away with the extra mobility and get to a more advantageous spot anyway. Just saying if the guns going to have high caliber rounds make the player sacrifice the extra mobility don't just add it on there and not say anything. Is mida not a scout rifle? Hasn't bungie said in all its weapon balancing updates that scouts are ideal for long range? Mida's only flaw can be the user because I've used it and that thing wrecks. Can you honestly say that in midas range another primary will out gun it and you won't be forced to try and out mida the other player? Thanks for your well thought out reply I look forward to your response

[quote]Your the first person to actually analyze my post and give as reasonable response for discussion so I thank you for that.[/quote] That's a sad honor to have, and a grave commentary on the community. But, anyway, it's my pleasure. The community is at its best when we can have these types of discussions. Right now, talking to each other is the most fun we can have with Destiny. ;P #sadtire [quote]I'm going to have to disagree on the mida not being good at long range the mida is a good counter to snipers because of the mobility perk you can easily strafe in and out of cover making target acquisition difficult and peg the target with the 'secret' high caliber rounds that exist why? and I didn't say it in my post but one guardian running in front of you while your in a gunfight with mida isn't exactly relevant because it doesnt happen that often and for my post I was thinking 1 v 1 gunfights. If it's 2 v 1 the 2 should win anyway. [/quote] Well, you kinda split that paragraph into two different topics. First, MIDA is ideal for dissuading snipers so that your teammates can prepare a flank, heavy weaponry, or a competing sniper. It needs to scare snipers and that's what it does. Can the MIDA kill a sniper? Yeah! But in an even 1v1 matchup, the sniper will be smart enough to a) position themselves well, and b) take cover when spotted. That being said, mobility is good. It makes me a harder target. But I've been sniped. To boot (no pun intended) I wear Radiant Dance Machines which further speed me up so there's no real reason why I should be getting hit. But I do. Because the game is balanced to allow skill to close certain gaps. Either way, both cases are anecdotal. This type of comparison can only be made through careful metrics. We don't have that available :-\ Second, in a 1v1, MIDA's target acquisition is fantastic. But when I'm trying to take out a guardian and there are other guardians around, I'm having a hard time. I think most people find it difficult if there is a guardian in front of them. I meant I'm looking through scope and I see more than 1 enemy in close physical proximity. Further to the point, in a 1v1, as I've detailed before, there are still a lot of ways to overcome the strengths of the MIDA. Namely, move out of its optimal range. [quote]the spam shots thing is if you're going toe to toe with another guardian a lot of the times my strat is to strafe in and out of cover to make them waste shots and with the mida the mag is too big to keep that up for long so theres no penatly for missing shots because you have to many where with tlw theres only 8 shots so you can strafe cover count the shots then attack mida has no such weakness. Also every weapon rewards hitting your shots especially to the head but they also penalize missing shots or prefiring corners because you usually have either a slow reload or a small mag with faster reload which is a weakness mida doesn't have. [/quote] Against smaller magazines, yes, your strategy works. You tire out your opponent (exhaust their ammo) and then go in for the kill. The MIDA is specifically designed to combat that strategy. Remember that not all approaches will work with every gun, and if you try to shoehorn this strategy against a MIDA, you'll be punished. The same could be said about any gun. For example, staying grounded against rockets means your opponent can shoot the ground instead of you, but jumping against a sniper puts you on a predictable path, making you an easier target. I think what we're talking about here is strategy. And we can agree, given the above quoted paragraph, that strategy simply doesn't work for MIDA. That isn't a commentary on the MIDA, but on the strategy. [quote]I agree with suros and monte beating in ideal range but most the time the mida user will stay in a longer sightline and pick you off before you get close enough or just run away with the extra mobility and get to a more advantageous spot anyway.[/quote] So the common thread here is strategy. The inclination is to engage as soon as you see a guardian. I'm guilty of it too. Going so far as to follow a guardian even though I know they're going to spin around and catch me by surprise. If you give me, a MIDA user, a clear shot of your head, with very little challenge to targetting, I'm going to take you down. That's when you have to rely on positional awareness to close the gap in cover, or get some cover fire. Cover terrain isn't always available, but if you have backup, they can provide cover fire. The thing is, remember, that cover fire has to be sufficiently threatening that I'll want to take cover. Scare me enough, and I'll give up my ground and retreat. If I want to live, I have no alternative. And I'm a hunter, I always want to live. But that furthers your second point, yes, but also makes what I said at first more applicable. Choose your engagements. If you can't flank the MIDA user because they retreat to higher ground, then you disengage and look for an opponent you can out maneuver. If that's not possible, then you re-asses your opponent's position, and figure out how to get to them safely. All this to say that, this paragraph is yet another commentary on strategy, and not MIDA. [quote]Just saying if the guns going to have high caliber rounds make the player sacrifice the extra mobility don't just add it on there and not say anything.[/quote] +2 agility, on a high agility subclass, with Radiant Dance Machines, means I can move pretty quick. But I still can't move faster than bullets. And I can't outrun a good flank. [quote]Is mida not a scout rifle? Hasn't bungie said in all its weapon balancing updates that scouts are ideal for long range?[/quote] Scouts are great transitional mid-long weapons. MIDA, however, is a hard mid weapon. That's why it's an exotic. It's not just another Scout Rifle. It can do a lot, yes; that fact is in the name. But it doesn't do everything well. [quote]Mida's only flaw can be the user because I've used it and that thing wrecks. Can you honestly say that in midas range another primary will out gun it and you won't be forced to try and out mida the other player?[/quote] Think of it like a Venn diagram, right. In ideal range, MIDA is uncontested. However, its total range intersects a lot of powerful weapons. It takes a good Guardian to always keep MIDA's ideal range, because when they do, they kill. Otherwise, they're going to get outplayed by better guns. [quote]Thanks for your well thought out reply I look forward to your response[/quote] I hope I didn't disappoint. At this juncture, though, I think I can safely say we're transitioning from discussing MIDA as a potentially overpowered weapon, to a conversation about strategy. I truly believe, the more you practice playing against MIDA, the more you'll learn its weaknesses. Once you learn how to outplay it, you'll quickly start to see that its not that great. Don't get me wrong, it's the MIDA Multi-tool... it's flippin' amazing! But it's definitely well balanced.

The maps in destiny are not big enough to offset the low range Stat of the Mida. It's optimal at every distance because it still fires fast enough to compete in close quarters (except for TLW and Doctrine, Necrochasm) and the sniper lanes in destiny are all very small. It still out guns 1kys because of its high caliber. It literally makes the next highest impact archetype of Scouts pointless to use because it takes the same amount of body and headshots to kill. Even the long sight lane on pantheon still is a 4 shot kill at that distance. Everything not named TLW or a bullet hose AR is sub-optimal to the Mida because it's drop off isn't high, and it's fire rate is still high for a scout. It is the best gun in destiny right now, and outside of those 2 guns mentioned above, by a pretty wide margin too.

1. Map size doesn't mean MIDA is overpowered. That's like saying Fusion and Auto Rifles are overpowered because most of the maps are close-mid range. 2. [b][ALL/b] of the sniper lanes in Destiny are small? Pantheon, Skyshock, Blind Watch, Bastion, First Light, Rusted Lands, and Twilight Gap are just a few examples of maps that have large sniper lines. 3. MIDA is a good counter to snipers, but it isn't a guaranteed win like you think it is. I have both won and lost battles against snipers with my MIDA. It all depends on gun skill. 4. Yes, Hung Jury's archetype does take 4 headshots to kill as does MIDA's. However, MIDA is the only one of its archetype, therefore forcing you to use an Exotic slot to get that advantage. Furthermore, Hung Jury's archetype is meant to be used at longer ranges than MIDA since they are easier to control there. MIDA has a closer-ranged scope for a reason. 5. A few sentences later, MIDA still isn't a guaranteed win against snipers. Its stability is much harder to handle than you think it is at that extreme range. Its drop-off actually does come into effect at Pantheon's vast sniper lane, as does its recoil. Hung Jury would be infinitely better for that situation. 6. There is no such thing as a "best gun", considering everything is useful at its intended range, but useless anywhere else. MIDA would be destroyed at close range by Hand Cannons, some Auto Rifles, or a shotgun. MIDA is not the best idea at long ranges against decently-skilled snipers and longer-ranged Scout Rifles.

[quote]1. Map size doesn't mean MIDA is overpowered. That's like saying Fusion and Auto Rifles are overpowered because most of the maps are close-mid range. 2. [b][ALL/b] of the sniper lanes in Destiny are small? Pantheon, Skyshock, Blind Watch, Bastion, First Light, Rusted Lands, and Twilight Gap are just a few examples of maps that have large sniper lines. 3. MIDA is a good counter to snipers, but it isn't a guaranteed win like you think it is. I have both won and lost battles against snipers with my MIDA. It all depends on gun skill. 4. Yes, Hung Jury's archetype does take 4 headshots to kill as does MIDA's. However, MIDA is the only one of its archetype, therefore forcing you to use an Exotic slot to get that advantage. Furthermore, Hung Jury's archetype is meant to be used at longer ranges than MIDA since they are easier to control there. MIDA has a closer-ranged scope for a reason. 5. A few sentences later, MIDA still isn't a guaranteed win against snipers. Its stability is much harder to handle than you think it is at that extreme range. Its drop-off actually does come into effect at Pantheon's vast sniper lane, as does its recoil. Hung Jury would be infinitely better for that situation. 6. There is no such thing as a "best gun", considering everything is useful at its intended range, but useless anywhere else. MIDA would be destroyed at close range by Hand Cannons, some Auto Rifles, or a shotgun. MIDA is not the best idea at long ranges against decently-skilled snipers and longer-ranged Scout Rifles.[/quote] 1) I never said map size makes the gun overpowered, nor did I say it was overpowered. I said the range Stat is low, but the maps aren't big enough to make the range Stat being low a big deal. 2) First Light, Skyshock, and Bastion are the only significantly large maps that make the Mida's range Stat start to make you see a notable difference in. All those other maps are still not big enough to make the gun require more than 4 headshots. 3) A bit of a stretch on my part. It's a great counter, but it is by no means guaranteed even with more gun skill. That I screwed up on. My bad. 4) Mida is not in its own archetype. It's just the only one with year 2 values that can reach max damage. Legendary ones such as the High Road Soldier don't have a max of 320, but still share Mida's archetype. That's why no one complained until it was brought to year 2. Because it wasn't used often (Like High Road Soldier) due to it not being year 2 5) Not sure which Mida you've been using, but mine is still 4 shots with high caliber rounds for stagger across pantheon. Hung Jury is still super solid for that situation, but Mida still is the way to go. It's recoil is not hard to control at all with Smart drift, and it's aim assist is absolutely ridiculous for a primary. There's no excuse for missing someone standing still in scope. 6) Mida is not destroyed at any range outside point blank. TLW and Doctrine are the only primaries that will consistently net you a victory from close quarters. Shotguns can obviously do the trick, but I was referring to primaries.

[quote]1) I never said map size makes the gun overpowered, nor did I say it was overpowered. I said the range Stat is low, but the maps aren't big enough to make the range Stat being low a big deal.[/quote] Good players can compensate for a lot of things. But I think this is one of those issues that cannot be argued without hard metrics. Anything else is anecdotal. In my experience, MIDA's low range stat definitely impacts my performance when trying for long range. [quote]2) First Light, Skyshock, and Bastion are the only significantly large maps that make the Mida's range Stat start to make you see a notable difference in. All those other maps are still not big enough to make the gun require more than 4 headshots.[/quote] In an ideal situation, this is true. But lets not forget that weapons must be balanced for application, not in a vacuum. If you can get 4 headshots, at distance, on a player that *isn't* standing still, you earned it. The gun has nothing to do with it. [quote]3) A bit of a stretch on my part. It's a great counter, but it is by no means guaranteed even with more gun skill. That I screwed up on. My bad.[/quote] I understand your point. The MIDA is meant for cover fire against snipers since they pose an actual threat, but aren't a hard counter. [quote]4) Mida is not in its own archetype. It's just the only one with year 2 values that can reach max damage. Legendary ones such as the High Road Soldier don't have a max of 320, but still share Mida's archetype. That's why no one complained until it was brought to year 2. Because it wasn't used often (Like High Road Soldier) due to it not being year 2[/quote] What I think he meant was that MIDA is hard mid. It's the only scout that's hard mid. High Road Soldier is built for mid-long. [quote]5) Not sure which Mida you've been using, but mine is still 4 shots with high caliber rounds for stagger across pantheon. Hung Jury is still super solid for that situation, but Mida still is the way to go. It's recoil is not hard to control at all with Smart drift, and it's aim assist is absolutely ridiculous for a primary. There's no excuse for missing someone standing still in scope.[/quote] "Standing still..." I don't think it can be claimed that a gun is not properly balanced when being measured against opponents that are standing still. Again, we need to consider the gun in application, not in a vacuum. [quote]6) Mida is not destroyed at any range outside point blank. TLW and Doctrine are the only primaries that will consistently net you a victory from close quarters. Shotguns can obviously do the trick, but I was referring to primaries.[/quote] Like (1), this is going to turn out being anecdotal. In my experience, MIDA is great at ideal range. Move in or out of that and its applicability greatly fall off. I have seen very little consistency in entering closer ranged battles with MIDA. With a 1.5 K/D, I'd say I'm a slightly above average player. I didn't bother to look at your stats, but if you're above 1.5, then it's entirely likely your competence grants increased success with MIDA in sub-optimal ranges. Which then becomes anecdotal.

Well I guess most points are solely off of experience and what we believe to be true based off of it. I'm not claiming it's overpowered though. The weapon field is just terrible compared to it. Year 1 guns blow these ones out the water lol. And I have a 2 ;)

Stop being so good at the game and you'll realize it's not the guns getting you kills ;)

The problem you're citing is with positional awareness and sniping competency, not the MIDA. The MIDA can discourage sniping, but will not beat out a decent sniper. If I see you sniping, and I hit you, and you don't take cover, yes, I can kill you. It's up to the sniper to take cover, or position themselves better. At close range, the hip fire of the MIDA is trash. I switch to sidearm because I don't want to deal with shotguns, and my melee can close the distance for a quick finish. Or the sidearm will force my opponent to try to back away and take cover which will let me switch back into MIDA.

I disagree, the Mida is basically a hand cannon with scout range and a fast rof. I liked it better when everyone used pulse rifles.

Care to offer any evidence? Anecdotes? Experiences? Saying you disagree doesn't add to the conversation. You're literally disgreeing solely to disagree...