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originally posted in: YOU ruined the game, NOT Bungie
1/20/2016 7:40:47 PM
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Autorifles, Shadow Price and Suros Regime as examples, killing far too quickly. Fusions, Pocket Infinity comes to mind, being to shoot and kill down long hallways. Shotguns like Felwinters killing people at excessive ranges because the maps are not large and frequently block sightlines. Thorn, TLW, and Red Death's extremely overt presence. Gjallarhorn's massive damage, Black Hammer's practically infinite ammo and high damage. Pulse Rifles being too consistent and efficient at all ranges. Snipers, TLW, and MMT currently dominating the Crucible. All of these situations resulted in other weapons being pointless to use. Yes, people will gravitate towards the most effective weapons that's true. But usually that means what works best for them. The problem is there isn't an effective weapon for that person specifically, just a weapon that's plainly better under most circumstances. That's a issue. If a game has a variety of weapons but one crappy one nobody uses, whatever. If a game has a variety of weapons but only a handful are used and the rest are ignored, that's not good. They might as well not even have any other guns in the game. "Get good" and "Learn to counter" aren't solid arguments in this case either. Why? Because the guns people wanted nerfed have lower risk for error against other weapons and also have a higher reward in too many circumstances and as such if they improve at the same rate as the other person trying to "Get Good" they'll win. And eventually people learn how to deal with the counters that other people have come up with. So you're back at square one. If you're (not specifically you, I mean anyone) okay with that and the narrow weapon selection that accompanies it, that's fine. That's your opinion. You're entitled to it. It's perfectly reasonable and logical too. The only guns that are good, just use them and ignore everything else. But from what I've seen in the forums other people want to be able to use guns they enjoy and not being forced to use a certain set of weapons.
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  • This never bothered me, especially for PvE, because now none of the weapons are special. There's nothing really worth trying to get. It's all just...good. There's nothing great.

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  • Edited by plague75: 1/20/2016 9:04:42 PM
    You can say all that but truth is back then the game was far more enjoyable. From 2 raids to 1. Prison of pointless oh I mean elders also Lost in the haz of year 2. loads of irrelevant contents due to year 2. Fact is id sooner loose ttk n go back to the way it was.. Don't get me wrong I love ttk but I hate the fact we lost crota n vault of glass in the process . I know we can still do them but what's the point? That's the reason why it's dieing not nerfs its all down to loss of good content. A lot of what your saying does make sense but I don't believe balance is why it's dieing or nerfs n buffs etc

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  • I know I played when the game came out, but I can't remember what I used in the Crucible other than hand cannons. I enjoyed playing it for sure, but the issue was the Pulse Rifles were non-existent and while scouts were good, they weren't practical most of the time. The real issue I think is that when problem weapons are nerfed they hit the whole class of weapons as well rather than the problem weapons alone. Not that some exotics didn't get nerfed without their weapon class getting nerfed, but the effect backfires. What this ends up doing is making the previously OP weapon the only useful weapon because the other weapons are still weaker anyway. Shotguns got nerfed. No one uses low range, high stability, high fire rate shotguns except Invective because they don't have useful range or damage in PvP or PvE but still have the same ammo count. High RoF snipers are usually not worth it either. Can't revive snipe and less body shot damage in PvP, lower damage for the same ammo in PvE. Not worth it. Both Hammer of Sol's and Forgemaster's blast radius were reduced, which meant that Forgemaster is the only way to go if you're really event trying to hit someone in PvP. Not including Suncharge. Try it and tell me you don't love charging into someone while on fire holding a flaming hammer with the sound of a nitrous boost whenever you do it. And Scorched Earth increases DPS massively in PvE so.... Gjallarhorn was nerfed and became even more exclusive because the damage reduction meant that it was a requirement for the whole fireteam to have one to make up for the lost damage. High RoF autos are an odd case. They were awful, but I find myself enjoying a few of them now over low RoF, typically doesn't feel right to use the slow ones. Don't know how many there are to form an idea of the ratio of useful to terrible autos, but still. Backfiring.

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  • I replied or made posts about this exact same topic. Super irritating when certain weapons are useless.

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  • I do agree about nerfing. It should never happen best way to balance as a rule would be to buff other weapons. I just can't help still being salty about the loss of all my stuff. Some HoW exotics I had a mer week or two before they were rendered useless older guns had more thought put into them with design and perks. Almost feels rather than fix the mechanics to make them more challenging they bent all the barrels on my guns. Hand cannon era was a little staile towards the end of that meta but I just feel it was more enjoyable back then. They haven't got it all Wrong though, pulse and autos are far better and I do now change weapons depending on the map.

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  • I can't entirely agree that buffs are the only way to go. If so, then eventually everything would get buffed to do massive damage in order to compensate for a weapon that already DOES do massive damage and then TTK would lower and affect gameplay.

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  • Some great points there mate. Being forced to use the gun/s you are being killed by sucks. Been there and done it. I do try to use a variety. Feels like only pulse rifles work for me right now. Never liked Mida...

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