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12/15/2015 4:09:04 AM
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There isn't a part of this that I can agree with.
I will reiterate what I always say, Bungie has all the power, not the players. You cannot blame the players or a game mode for the nerfs that happen to weapons in PvP and PvE, logically the blame falls on Bungie for not separating the nerfs. [i]There is no one other than Bungie at fault.[/i]
And to suggest that a game mode be [u]removed[/u] because of this? That's madness. Trials players don't choose which weapons are to be nerf'd and buff'd. They don't choose the values. They have [i]no power[/i], [b]Bungie[/b] does. So to suggest that Trials players are to blame is outrageous.
Secondly, repeatable PvP players wouldn't complain about a weapon unless they thought there was an absolute problem with it. By stereotyping all Trials players into one circle of people who cry nerf, is wholly disgusting. [i]Most[/i] Trials players play the game without a second thought and if there is a problem, it will be addressed.
As far as the MIDA post, [i]look at whose posting them.[/i] [u]Scrubs[/u]. And if MIDA gets nerf'd, then you have to blame Bungie for being stupid enough to believe such claims.
Overall, I'm just horribly disappointed that you would suggest that [i]Trials[/i] is the reason weapons are getting nerf'd. [b]No[/b], it's Bungie and if for some reason, you want to blame a group of players, it's the scrubs that get out played and blame the bloody gun, run to the forums and complain about it.
And let's say that Trials [i]is[/i] removed. What do you suggest replace it? Are you just going to leave those hundreds of thousands of players who participate in Trials out to dry? Just going to ignore their feelings on the matter?
It's [u]not[/u] Trials. It's [u]not[/u] PvP players. It's [b]Bungie[/b]. And I'm [b]incredibly[/b] disappointed by the position that you took here.
[spoiler]Plus removing content from Destiny is like removing water from a desert, you are just making a bad situation worse.[/spoiler]
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So we agree there's a problem and when there's a problem, the only way to address it is to shine a light on it and figure out how to fix it. We don't have to agree on the root, Bungie... Nerfherders... In the end it's a "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Bungie are the ones who ultimately are responsible for defiling the weapons in this game, but to say that the players have no power or culpability is a gross misrepresentation of the situation. Anyone who's been on these forums since launch know that the players who hold the most sway and who directly impact play the most are the nerf babies. Again, I have no issue with Trials. Hell, my pal J Stevensontown lives in Trials and I'd hate to see him not have that game mode. But something has got to give and there needs to be a serious wake-up call on these forums over the continual destruction of weapon playability and if the suggestion of the removal of Trials pulls one nerfherder or Bungie sandbox tester's head from their bum, then I'm sorry but this post is worth it. Do you want to see Scouts face the same fate as every other weapon in this game? Because it's going to happen. So disagree all you want and be disappointed if you must, but it's time to draw a line and take a stand. #nomorenerfs And if Trials was collateral to not destroying Scouts, I'm not sure that's not a win.
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Edited by Shiloh Ivy: 12/15/2015 4:52:02 AM[quote]So we agree there's a problem and when there's a problem, the only way to address it is to shine a light on it and figure out how to fix it.[/quote] The community has shined lights on this matter since Vex Mythoclast. And the solution has been clear: Seperate the PvP and PvE nerfs. Now, it's up to Bungie to do that. I don't see how removing a game mode will accomplish this. [quote]Bungie are the ones who ultimately are responsible for defiling the weapons in this game, but to say that the players have no power or culpability is a gross misrepresentation of the situation.[/quote] To say that they are even [i]mostly[/i] responsible, is an exaggeration. If a child tells a father to buy a new house and he does but at the expense of all his income, then who will you blame? Will it not be the father because he is the one who made the decision, who carried it out and who listened to the bad advice? Similarly, yes, if you want to be picky and blame nerf babies and basis his ludacris suggestion on that, then by all means. But [i]logically[/i] speaking, it [i]is[/i] largely, if not solely Bungie's fault. And if they seperate the nerfs, then there would be no problem but instead. [quote]Anyone who's been on these forums since launch know that the players who hold the most sway and who directly impact play the most are the nerf babies.[/quote] And whose fault can we contribute to that? Is not Bungie's for listening to this part of the community? And what percentage of the community do you think these "nerf babies" make up? It couldn't be a huge chunk. So by removing Trials, you are going to punish the vast majority of Trials players for what Bungie is incapable of doing and to a lesser extent, the small percentile of "nerf babies". Secondly, the main argument is that when something is nerf'd for PvP, it's nerf'd for PvE too and this is why the people are upset. Now I ask you, nerf babies or not, who is in control of how the nerfs are distributed? Is it not Bungie? And they've shown that they can seperate the nerfs with the shotgun buff to PvE combatants back in March. So I ask, how can Trials players be responsible for weapons that are nerf'd in PvE when Bungie not only can filter what they nerf or not but can seperate them as well. With this knowledge, how can you rightfully conclude that taking Trials out of the game as a good and fair option? [quote]But something has got to give and there needs to be a serious wake-up call on these forums over the continual destruction of weapon playability and if the suggestion of the removal of Trials pulls one nerfherder or Bungie sandbox tester's head from their bum, then I'm sorry but this post is worth it.[/quote] Okay you've removed Trials. Now the "nerf babies" are going to learn their lesson and not complain anymore? [b]No.[/b] They will continue to do as they've done in the past. Even after seeing auto rifle's nerf'd into oblivion, they are still going on about nerfs, what makes you think this will be any different? Eventually, you'd have to remove PvP entirely from the game if this is the course of action we want to take. [quote]So disagree all you want and be disappointed if you must, but it's time to draw a line and take a stand. #nomorenerfs [/quote] This [i]isn't[/i] the way to do it, Sols. It's not. Think about what you are asking here, you want to [i]remove[/i] a game mode to get a Dev or a Whiny kid to stop nerfing weapons. [b][u][i]How[/i][/b] in the will this work?[/u] You'll remove a game mode, piss hundreds of thousands of players off and accomplish [b]nothing[/b] except punishing innocent players to make a point that will not be made. [quote]And if Trials was collateral to not destroying Scouts, I'm not sure that's not a win.[/quote] Then how far would you go? If it's [b]planted[/b] into your mind that PvP players are [i]solely[/i] blame for nerfs then how far would you go? You'd have to remove PvP, lose part of the community and then what? You've saved your scouts. But instead of making a post to Bungie about how much we want to seperate the PvP and PvE nerfs, you elect to make one petitioning to [u]remove content from the game.[/u]
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I agree completely. (Especially the spoiler) Plus, isn't Sols contradicting himself in the fact that he has mentioned the obvious lack of content before?
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I could be wrong, but I think it's more about starting a discussion on the nerf epidemic than actually removing Trials.
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[quote]I could be wrong, but I think it's more about starting a discussion on the nerf epidemic than actually removing Trials.[/quote]
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[spoiler]:)[/spoiler]
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But I think the question is: if certain content ONLY PLAYED BY A TINY FRACTION OF PLAYERS means that entire weapons get nerfed into uselessness for ALL OF US, then it makes me wonder, is it worth it to keep it just for the sake of content?
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Think about this from a business perspective. Hundreds of thousands of players play trials each week. Out of that number, 10% of those players probably ONLY play trials. Trials is Destinys "endgame", it comes after the raid, after everything else is done. If you eliminate that endgame, Destiny will lose many more players than it already has, maybe even more than it can afford to lose.
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Oh I hear you, and I disagree with Sols that Trials should be scrapped, but I agree with the sentiment behind it: a very vocal group of PvP tryhards scream for Bungie's attention every time they lose to a certain weapon or weapon type. Bungie, being [i]Bungie[/i], listens to whining and -blam!-s everything up.
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Edited by Pro: 12/15/2015 5:07:25 AM[quote]Oh I hear you, and I disagree with Sols that Trials should be scrapped, but I agree with the sentiment behind it: a very vocal group of PvP tryhards scream for Bungie's attention every time they lose to a certain weapon or weapon type. Bungie, being [i]Bungie[/i], listens to whining and -blam!-s everything up.[/quote] I disagree on who screams for nerfs, actually. The top tier PvP players, the "elite" - the ones most successful in Trials, they are adaptive. They will win with Mida, thorn, NLB.. Fusions, defender Titan.. Doesn't matter, they will win. It's the "middle class" pvp guys. Who are ALMOST close enough. it's the people who spend most of their time in patrol, and branch out for trials every once and a while but just don't cut it. Y1 I spent a lot of time on LFG and #Recruitment, just going flawless as many times as I could, and I definitely saw the difference in the player base. It became clear that Truly elite pvp guys would win, with the meta or without it. Truly mediocre players felt like they would only lose because of the meta - and instead of just saying "wow, nice kill" they'd say "can't wait until they nerf X" Just my 2 cents. [b][i][u]Edit[/u][/i][/b]: read your post wrong, pretty sure we're talking about the same group lol
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I completely agree with you. 100%
