I'm not saying defenders are impossible, but they definately have it roughest in pvp. It is fun playing a defender. I main a defender, but if we are saying all classes should be equal in effectiveness in pvp, then that is a fair comparison to make. You can't say because it is a defensive class that means it is supposed to not be as good as gunslinger. And 2 of 3 shots does not cancel supers out, it should be 3 shots to pop. If you use the exotic that gives a 4th shot, then that is fine to kill the defender with. You used your exotic spot for it. But in terms of super cancelling defenders generally come up short. Not always, but generally yes. The logic people use saying to buff these other classes doesn't make sense when some of the others are fairly underpowered in pvp. Defenders are defensive, but they aren't defensive enough to be equals. Sunbreakers are tankier than defenders right now. And I'm fine with a sunbreaker nerf of some sort. Just nothing crazy. But let's not buff other classes till we make sure everyone is on equal footing. There is a reason people post videos of awesome defender clips. Because it is harder to do well as a defender than say a sunbreaker or stormcaller.

[quote]if we are saying all classes should be equal in effectiveness in pvp[/quote] Whose we? I didn't say that, ofc there's differences in classes that cannot in any way make them equal. That's your argument not mines. [quote]You can't say because it is a defensive class that means it is supposed to not be as good as gunslinger.[/quote] Actually I can say that... what part of defensive don't you get, their super is not meant to kill so it cannot be as good as a super that's meant to kill. That's common sense. Also ever heard the saying the best offense is a good defense, if used right defenders body. It should be 3 shots to pop... lmao. Let me give you a counterargument for that. You have bladedancers on one hand who don't have to worry about bubble at all, all they have to do is go inside and kill everyone.... but gg needs 3 shots to pop bubble? Lmfao yeah riiight.. if you're a decent player once you pop weapons of light (mind you, your bubble last the longest out of any super) you can straight body people. Also no other class is better together than two defenders, once you have several defenders working together it's near impossible to beat. So wth are you really saying? You can't convince me defenders are under powered that's ludicrous... they aren't, they're actually great for what their role is which is a [b]defensive[/b] role.

Defenders are effective, and I in no way am saying they should be more offensive at all. I'm saying they should be more defensive effective. Have a stronger defense. Melee supers entering the bubble is fine. The super is designed to accommodate melee specifically. And even if they keep the 2 shots to pop the bubble, that is fine. I was using that more as an example If people are arguing to give GG all these buffs because sunbreaker does xyz, then that is indirectly saying that classes should be equal. So anyone making that arguement is, indirectly, arguing that classes should be equal. As equal as completely different supers can be at least. My whole thing is if the classes generally fare equally in a game, in terms of wins and such, then they are relatively equal. I wouldn't say defenders need much of a buff, but saying a class like gunslinger or nightstalker (which other people, not specifically you, have claimed) needs one isn't looking at the big picture of all subclasses.

Bungie signed me out when they were doing maintenance, so I didn't get a chance to respond to you. [quote]Defenders are effective, and I in no way am saying they should be more offensive at all. I'm saying they should be more defensive effective. Have a stronger defense. Melee supers entering the bubble is fine. The super is designed to accommodate melee specifically. And even if they keep the 2 shots to pop the bubble, that is fine. I was using that more as an example[/quote] I see your point. You might get your wish after all, they seem to be targeting all 3 titan classes in the upcoming patch. [quote]If people are arguing to give GG all these buffs because sunbreaker does xyz, then that is indirectly saying that classes should be equal. So anyone making that arguement is, indirectly, arguing that classes should be equal. As equal as completely different supers can be at least. [/quote] What I have to say regarding this is that people used to complain that gunslingers could run around with their super active, and how it's not fair yadayada (keyword fair they wanted something equal) , and how titans don't have any mobile super. This is probably were sunbreakers derived from. In any case they basically got double what gunslingers have plus additional. Their super last twice as long, they throw twice as many hammers than gg shots, they have more defense than gunslingers. They [b]heal[/b] on top of their defense, or they can have overshields [b]constantly[/b]. Do you see the point I'm making? So if left the same then gunslingers can't even compare, because sunbreakers tank gg, when hit by it all they have to do is throw another hammer, kill the gunslinger and heal from it. Not saying everything has to be balanced, like i said before each class has things that make them different be it a pro or con. However for gunslingers there's so many damn cons, this is why people are asking for a buff. We don't have to be the best but they could at least give us one or the other. Our super should last longer, or people shouldn't be able to tank our shots seeing how we only have 3. Can you believe they're some people going into crucible with nighthawk, just so they can 1 shot a super? That how ludicrous it is.