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11/20/2015 1:07:26 AM
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I wonder if there is a word for when you discriminate or deny access based off of race or gender....hmmmm...
Oh yes! There is. Bigotry. Sexist. Surely that must not be your one gender only clan. However, if you think it's OK to discriminate based on gender... Well. I see no problem with bringing back a male dominated society. Since... You know... Gender discrimination is OK again.
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what's the big deal? it's a clan a for females only, why is that an issue? if it's such a problem then start a clan for males only. I don't see the problem here.
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Discrimination requires unfairness. You think it's unfair we don't let men in a sisterhood. I d say it would be unfair to call a guy a sister. Guess all gendered nouns have to go out the window to make everyone comfortable.
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Oh no!One little internet group isn't open to everyone?Better bring back the patriarchy!
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Edited by TnNikita: 11/20/2015 3:06:45 AMBring it back? It was gone? Was there a 0.0000025 seconds where equality reigned and I missed it?!?! Oh, wait. Nope.
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Bait and hook? Don't you guys get your flannel bunched up in your crew cuts. Any kind of discrimination is bad. The fact that you are angry that I called you out on yours just goes to show you're looking for excuses to hate, and hiding it behind such labels as 'safety', going as far as implying the majority of male gamers make the gaming world hostile for weak, defenseless women (setting equal rights back a hundred years... Good job, ladies). I suppose I should just let it go. Most women I know can handle themselves, making you lot sound like a bunch of tweens keeping boys out of their gaggle because boys have cooties.
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Let's see...flannel, nope. Crew cut, nope. Hating on men, nope. Angry, nope. Implying anything about the majority of male gamers, not really. Speaking from our own personal experiences in gaming, yes. Sarcastic, absolutely. Other than those last two, I don't seem to meet your stereotyped criteria for...I'm not sure if you're going for feminist or lesbian, although I suspect it's the later. I'm not offended to be thought either, though, so looks like your ever so clever barbs failed to land. I think we can handle ourselves just fine, sorry that you've encountered a space where women don't back down from men who are upset a space exists that their privilege doesn't entitle them to occupy. Sounds like it's a first for you if this is what you think angry looks like. Anyway, back to the original point you made that until now I didn't really think was worth a response - nothing personal, it's just that Karza is much funnier... Bigotry is intolerance for those who think differently from you, which sounds a lot more like the post you lead with than anything we've said. Sexism is discrimination toward a target/non-privilieged group (women) on the part of a dominant/privileged group (men). So, since we're neither bigoted nor sexist, it's probably best we just move on. If you're so upset that we've exercised our right to make a private, personal choice regarding who we want to be in a group with, I don't know how you handle actual issues of discrimination in which people are truly treated poorly or denied access to things they have a right to access. Here are a couple of things to think about when it comes to issues of gender and space and the actual fight for equal rights. I don't really expect you to pay them any mind, but at least I've tried: http://geekfeminism.org/2009/09/19/thinking-about-gender-and-space/ http://radgeek.com/gt/2000/09/30/what_you/
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Edited by Hexxy: 11/21/2015 2:53:28 AMPrivilege. It's like a go-to justification for gender or racial discrimination. There no privilege. I'm not sitting on a high paying job in a field where men get in just by being men. Honestly, I work as a nurse (female dominated field) on a burn ward. I want to write this loud. I WORK WITH STRONG, EMPOWERED, AND PRIVILEGED WOMEN. They don't hide behind claims that women hold no power, thus they can't discriminate against men. You insult my wife by saying that. I also grew up poor. I guess I missed the privilege tickets when they were being passed out. Just dropping the word privilege almost invalidates all your points, hinting at preconceived notions that aren't likely to ever change based off of such flimsy things as rationality or equality. Any time you deny anyone anything due to gender, race, age, or culture, you are discriminating. You are building a 'safe' group that will only promote unhealthy views of culture and interpersonal relationships. You want a truly safe group. Find men who are warm, kind, and supportive (obviously not me) to join. The good examples of their gender. That will truly not only allow a safe environment by females, for (mainly) females, that also doesn't create or encourage discriminating gender views or beliefs that can potentially disrupt real life interactions. If I was to create a clan for men who were hurt by women, you'd be damn sure I would let healthy supportive women in to show the men that not all women are biased 'privilege' accusers. That would promote healing and healthy interactions. And yes. If a male wants to be called 'sister' based off of his personal feelings of identity, then that's what I will call him ( or rather, her). No hesitation, no judgement. Or do you think men who identify as women just do that because it's their... privilege? EDIT: Forgot to mention. Love the of the post about 19th century backwards culture, like it's relevant today.
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We all have aspects of our identity that grant us privilege, and we all have aspects of our identity that make us part of a target group. If you choose not to examine the intersections of your various identities and see how the ones that grant you privilege interact with the ones that don't, that's your issue not mine. Sitting around comparing who's more oppressed doesn't solve any problems, it only allows the systems of oppression to continue. My pointing that out doesn't invalidate any of my points, it just makes you uncomfortable and defensive. Again, your issue, not mine. We've chosen a particular method to provide a safe space, and no matter how much you insist otherwise, it's a perfectly valid choice. What you seem to have missed is that we've never said we hated men, we've never said our members can't be part of other groups, nor that they can't play with men. We're one of many groups in Destiny, and there's room enough for us all. We fully encourage our members to be part of as many and whatever groups they wish. If you'd taken a second to look at my profile, you'd see that while I'm an admin for Sisterhood (an clearly a staunch supporter), I actually carry a different clan tag. A clan that is co-ed, and whose make members are nothing but supportive of, wait for it, my other, all-female clan. They aren't threatened, bothered, or otherwise feel discriminated against simply because a group exists they can't join. You can rant and rave at me/us all you want, and you can claim whatever insults you want - in the end, you're saying more about yourself than you are about me/us. We get this kind of thing every few days from trolls, and like all the others, you won't keep us from growing a strong, supportive community. I hope you find something more productive to do with your time than tilting at this windmill. Although since any response on the thread bumps it back to the top and helps us advertise, I have to say thank you for helping spread our message. Good luck in the world, guardian.
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Though you make a lot of invalid suppositions of my character (most likely due to my audacity of not agreeing with your methods... Insistently), you made an otherwise well reasoned post. I'm really not offended. You almost had me. If you didn't insult me, I would have thought I was wrong in how I thought of your group. I would have thought "gee, Hex, you're being a real jerk. You should have just let it go". Ultimately your own need to have the upper hand shown me the weakness of your argument. Though, honestly, it is kind of dumb I'm bothering to reply. There's really nothing to gain aside from pointing out hypocrisy. As to my replies bumping your post... I don't know why you would think I'd be bothered by that. Every one of your replies only bumps me up as well. It's a mutually beneficial interaction. Despite your barbs (which are very well written and a pleasure to read, BTW, despite the ill intent), I have nothing to gain continuing this. Well... Maybe if it's another well written or truly stupid reply (I feel as if your capable of both). Anything in between is definitely not worth any more of my time. Continue fostering unhealthy belief structures in peace.
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I find it interesting that the person who came to our thread to post an insulting attack on our group (unless I've missed something, bigotry ad sexism are still considered insults, correct?), now wants to take the high road and claim offense. To begin the exchange with such serious insults (setting the tone for what is expected) only to change the rules when you get the same treatment in return (while still engaging in that same behavior that you're theoretically opposed to) is itself hypocritical. Maybe you should reconsider throwing that word around so freely... Given how you led with your first post, I really don't think you actually wanted an exchange of ideas or were open to seeing us any differently than you assumed us to be. I think you were mostly interested in taking a group of women to task for not operating the way you think we should. That feels incredibly presumptuous and frankly, rude. I'm under no obligation to treat you any more kindly than you've treated me or my group, so please spare me the attempted guilt trip. Additionally, the burden of proof rests with the complainant (you), not the respondent (me/us). It's not my job to convince you of anything about our group; it's my job to refute your assertions, which I've done. Everything else rests with the population we hope to serve. Based on our continued membership growth and the strength and energy present in our community, it's clear to me where they stand on the subject matter. As a last note, I didn't make the comment about bumping our thread because I thought it would bother you. I made it to express my appreciation for your indirect support of our group by bumping our thread. Regardless of what I think of how you've approached us, helping us reach our audience is something to be grateful for, and that's all I was expressing. I meant that, and I meant it when I said good luck in the world - it's a hard enough world out there without adding additional ill will. Take that however you want; I'm not interested in your assessment of whether my post is worth your time to respond. Your opinion on whether I've spoken well enough for you isn't relevant to me; I know my intentions and meaning.
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[quote]I wonder if there is a word for when you discriminate or deny access based off of race or gender....hmmmm... Oh yes! There is. Bigotry. Sexist. Surely that must not be your one gender only clan. However, if you think it's OK to discriminate based on gender... Well. I see no problem with bringing back a male dominated society. Since... You know... Gender discrimination is OK again.[/quote] You do realize there are list of gender specific clans right? Like dads of destiny or deans of destiny
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Honestly, I didn't realize it. Just as bad.
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They were made BC of online harassment,
