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Edited by Leaf Shimmer: 10/30/2015 3:07:12 PM
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After the first TTK month's absence

Disclosure: I pre-ordered base Destiny, then pre-ordered both first expansions (Crota's End and House of Wolves). I did not buy the Taken King. Recently, after a month's absence, I began playing Destiny again and found the state of non-TTK owners (non-TTKers, for slightly shorter) to be more disappointing than I had initially thought. I'm aware that while some issues have been discussed at length, others seem merely mentioned by comparison. Now here, I would like to ask for an improved experience in three areas that deteriorated for non-TTKers after the release of TTK: the Crucible, rewards, and stats. The Crucible This one is simple. Non-TTKers had all their Crucible playlists replaced by three Classic playlists that deliver specific crucible modes at random. Personally, I like to play Control, yet I feel like I'm playing Clash more than anything else. It is unfortunate enough that I cannot play Iron Banner and Trials of Osiris and it seems that I will not be able to play Inferno anymore either, but at the very least, may non-TTKers have separate playlists for the separate base Crucible modes? Rewards This one is not so simple. Yes, non-TTKers no longer have access to Nightfall, Weekly Heroic, and Daily rewards, but it seems they do not even have access to simple legendaries anymore in addition to a reduced glimmer income. I have played Crucible and Strikes for many hours without receiving a legendary or seeing any other level 34 receive one but I have seen level 40s receive them. At the same time, I have noticed I am not receiving as much glimmer as I used to. Admittedly, I do not have much evidence outside my own anecdotes and observations in regards to legendary drops, but I have found a few posts on glimmer. One such, Rxninja, from Reddit (https://redd.it/3nh2ue), wrote [quote]Majors used to give 25 glimmer, then 38 with a consumable. Now they give nothing, then 25 with a consumable.[/quote] This all then begins to make sense when we remember that ghosts now give bonuses to glimmer extraction from either a particular crucible opponent or a particular darkness enemy. Even more, most Crucible and Vanguard bounties still award a reputation of 50 or 100 with an unchanged rank up requirement of 2,500 for their vendors. This is pretty standard pre-2.0 level... if you didn't do Nightfall. With no more Nightfall XP and reputation bonus in TTK, the difference is probably more or less made up by the new class items that award bonus reputation to either the Crucible or the Vanguard. Keeping the same tactic, I wouldn't be surprised if now weapons require more XP to level up as a way to account for class items also giving bonus XP to particular weapons when upgrading them. So what does this mean for non-TTKers? Well, since they can't equip ghosts or class items that give the above bonuses because they have a level 40 requirement, they receive less glimmer and less reputation from bounties than they did before TTK. Then, there's the no legendary thing, but wait, there's more... Stats This one hurt a little. I pretty much grinded for the armor that I have because I want a particular setup. TTK released and my Intellect, Discipline, and Strength went down... way down. Pre-TTK, I could max out two of these stats. Post-TTK, all my stats (Intellect, Discipline, and Strength) added together are not enough to fully max out one of my stats. This affects me in both PvE and PvP, and with the number of level 40s (level doesn't matter but their stats and subclasses do) entering the Classic and Vanguard Legacy playlists (why do you guys do that, by the way?), the game becomes a little pay-to-win-ish, or at least pay-to-reach-same-level-of-efficiency. I would understand if my stats had been reduced because they were too high for the balance of the game, but considering that two of the three stats can still be maxed out with level 40 gear, this just feels like a nerf to non-TTKers since they can't reach previous stat levels (and from the looks of it, possibly even a little more) without access to level 40 gear. Still, there's more. The orb generation cap was reduced to a max of 8 when wearing exotic armor that increases spawning rates (so 7 without it? that's been my experience). Additionally, orb generation rates were also reduced. I am sure I am not the only one who has noticed majors now produce three orbs instead of the previous standard four. My guess: an update to account for the addition of Artifacts, which provide other means of producing orbs. Once again though, another item non-TTKers do not have access to. Whether or not people with TTK currently generate as many orbs as they did overall pre-TTK, I do not know but I can tell you with certainty non-TTKers do not even have a chance of it. This all said, I am not going to claim to have discovered a solution that somehow Bungie missed. I am sure these have all been conscious decisions. I merely ask them to reconsider and grant what could be one of the following possibilities (the liberty to choose to play specific Crucible modes is not included for space). Bungie could: Allow non-TTKers to reach level 40. Allow non-TTKers to receive Y2 legendary drops from Crucible and Vanguard Legacy. Non-TTKers would receive and use level 40 weapons, armor, Ghosts, class items, and Artifacts. In other words, they would have the unhindered rewards and stats experience while playing the Crucible or Vanguard Strikes. Bungie could: Add an infusion node to all Y1 legendary armor. Allow non-TTKers to receive Y2 legendary gear from Classic Crucible and Vanguard Legacy. Remove Ghost, class item, and Artifact level requirements (for glimmer, rep, and orb purposes). By adding infusion to old armor, non-TTKers could enhance their stats (Intellect, Discipline, and Strength) by using Y2 gear as infuse material. Ghost, class items, and Artifacts would further add onto those stats. Still at level 34 and unable to use level 40 weapons and armor, non-TTKers would at least be able to receive legendary rewards, even if only for infusion purposes. Bungie could: Allow Classic Crucible and Vanguard Legacy to drop all Y1 legendary and rare weapons. Any little win is a win, and receiving legendary gear from regular activities again would be nice. Bungie could: Do absolutely nothing about it. It's a valid response. There already is one way for non-TTKers to earn unusable Y2 gear: packages (Cryptarch, Crucible, etc.) award them. The above is listed in order of what I believe to be likelihood, rather than preference. If it were my preference, there would be Rift up there. I bought Destiny thinking there would be more Crucible game modes. I bought the expansions hoping for some Capture the Flag Crucible mode. TTK released and you can feel free to LOL. Not only have existent variations like Inferno and Elimination seemingly disappeared and the base Crucible modes merge, but the long awaited CTF style Crucible mode has released. Yay. Anyways, I really hope something is done about this. I know some people would be very unhappy for non-TTKers to receive any free content of any kind. Personally though, I think that's pathetic. When I bought TDB and HOW, I did not mind if others received a small experience of free content. When I bought those expansions, I bought them not because I wanted to have something that others did not but because I wanted the full experience. By this, I do not mean Bungie owes non-TTKers anything. However, I do mean there is nothing unethical by it. And hopefully, this can be addressed soon. I still remember 9 months of Thorn. If you manage to read this, thanks. Even if you just skimmed, I still appreciate it.

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  • It's just a marketing gimmick, pay for expansions or get left behind its not a very good way to do business in my opinion but if they are happy with the results my opinion doesn't mean anything

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  • The Taken King is what destiny should have been when it released, its great and you should buy it. With that being said it absolutely sucks how much stuff they locked away from Non Taken King players. Basically if you dont have TTK your at silver status, you can play the basic stuff and probably enjoy it but the REALLY fun stuff? Yeah thats all Golden for those who coughed up another expansion/subscription fee. Just wait, couple months and we'll have a NEW DLC that will lock us all out of content till we pay our overlords. Id quit if it wasnt so damn addictive........ yeah right aint no one quits destiny.

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    • Edited by AlexisRivera: 10/31/2015 1:12:42 AM
      To me the deal breaker was the currency stealing, not only taking away our hard earned marks but also replacing them with "legendary" marks which are functionally the same as the previous ones in every way other than the fact that they are "special" and somehow we can't even earn them at all, Basically Bungie's way of saying "FuK You" for not buying TTK... enjoy your content without the rewards! Real classy bungie...

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      • Too long

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        • Edited by Muff1nblazE: 11/1/2015 3:59:25 AM
          Just move on to another game. TTK was fun for the first month but the endgame is just grinding the one and only year 2 raid and getting shit drops almost all the time. Trials isn't even worth it anymore. It's a shame so many people are blinded by the addiction that they can't see how much this sucks.

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          • If you want to keep playing then go ahead, but don't complain when you can't advance into an expansion without paying for it. Regardless if you agree with it or not, majority of the games out now are rapidly expanding and you can't find a game anywhere that gives out free DLC's. Whether it's a monthly payment or lump sum packages you have to PAY for new content. If you love the game as much as most people do you won't care about that price because you enjoy playing it. If you don't enjoy playing it or don't agree with the companies marketing or terms then simply don't play and move on. Playing Destiny without TTK is basically a waste of your time if you like the game for you are only holding yourself back from reaching level 40, and experiencing the new content. I hate to say it but don't expect Bungie to even acknowledge your cries and demands to benefit those who do not support them. They will continue to make DLC's and continue to make you pay, unless by some miracle they give TTK owners a free DLC, but I highly doubt it. My advice is really decide if you want to move forward in destiny and buy it, or if you don't agree with Bungies terms then trade it in for a fraction of what you paid all together.

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            • I doubt Bungie will fix this if you ask me its a part of their plan because they hoped that limiting content and sometimes even straight up taking it would make gamers feel the need to buy the TTC(The Taken Content) even more

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              • About the legendary and exotic drop is true you cant get them anymore in pvp if you havent ttk. But if you level up the crucible reputation and use the 3 of coins on strike, you can get both but they are level 40 so its useless. How fix this mess. well they can do it but they need the activion permission and trust me it never happened This is my idea for "save" the year one players: Level max to 39 Hard mode for the the old strike and raids to 39 NPC sell weapons and armor divide by tiers Tiers one: armor and weapons from level 34 to 39 Tiers two: armor and weapons level 40 to 45 (raise the cap for who purchase TTK)

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                • Edited by CobraMate: 10/31/2015 5:53:50 PM
                  When they charged $20 to get your light lvl up by 1 point i knew something was wrong. And the forums are hilarious! Lol i play on the forums more than i do the game.

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                  • Fan boys will defend the game and their corrupt developer all day every day(note: fan boys are mainly uneducated and undeveloped -15 year olds) so just ignore them. Anyway the best thing we can all do is stop buying destiny products. The battle for destiny is lost, nothing else we can do.

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                    • I share your point of view, but in all likelihood will Bungie address any of this or even respond. I remember when TTK first launched the forums were filled with complaints about all these issues you raise, but wee didn't hear a squeak from Bungie. Even now, after all the dust has settled they're still tight lipped, only dropping a few hints here and there that they won't be bringing forward any y1 strikes.

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                      • Holy wall of Text batman.. dude, if you want to keep playing just pay the $40. if you don't.. walk away. Take that $40 add $20 more to it and buy Halo. IMO, it's worth it. Most fun with any video game I've ever owned. Well worth the $105 I've spent on it.

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                        • Your post is all about getting DLC items and getting level 40 why do need to be 40 if you not buying the dlc?

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                          • Alot of the taken king was developed this year. Do yourself a favour and buy it. It's much better than being negative, grumpy and missing out on the best part of your favourite game.

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                            • Lmao? So someone plays black ops 1, just because black ops 2 came out and your stuck on black ops one, does that make those who can afford the second version pay to wins? Or does that make u a poor broke ass who wastes too much time wanting and no time doing?

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                              • I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous to me. This thing has been out for over a month. The simple solution to that entire wall of text is obviously to JUST FREAKING BUY THE EXPANSION. Which is what you absolutely should do if you are still playing the game, which you clearly are.

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                                • You could: just buy the TTK and stop whining....

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                                  • TL;DR go mow some lawns, save your money and buy The Taken King

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                                  • I agree with BumpUrRump about the "vanilla Destiny" statement. You basically got the shaft if you didn't fork out more $$$ for TTK. You are basically left with "half a game" (give or take) now if you chose not to expand. What they did to the community base that owned the game, bought its expansions, etc was more or less sayingd you cant keep playing unless you keep giving us more $$$ . New players coming in can get a discount and buy the legendary edition. But everyone else that spent roughly $100 (minimum) bucks until TTK came out had to spend another $40 bucks to keep enjoying the game. There really ought to be laws against that kind of crap. We all know the game was diced up to start with. You know it was...look at what the expansions "opened up". Those areas were there. All this speculation about that kukato "report" (forgive me if my spelling isn't correct but you know who I mean) being biased or fantasy is crazy. That content was there. Year one gamers have hit those dead ends and thought "hmmm....why this empty space/dead end in this area. Because someone decided to dice it up and feed it to us piece meal. Us year one players basically spent $140 (minimum) for a $60 game. Not only did we spend all that money, all our gear and grinding was set to zero. That's one of the things that really gripes my ass. I've seen some people say "well that's how they do it in so and so". Yeah well they don't do it across the board. I myself, have not played an MMO yet were you have to start from scratch for every expansion or any expansion for that matter. It has been for me a true expansion i.e. more stuff was added. I haven't played them all so I can believe it happens. But in my opinion its not the norm. How things have been done in this game is such a travesty, I will not be buying into a Destiny 2 or any crap like that. I'll ride this one out but I'll be done with this game franchise (silver? oh please. the MJ zombie dance is cool and all, just not $7 cool). I stopped buying CoD games after BO2 because of the BS, hacking, and crap DLC so I will do the same with Destiny. Honestly, the only way any real change would happen with this game or any other game in the future is if there was a boycott and the money just dried up. Theyd take notice then. But even in this day and age with the prevalence of social media and all that will never happen. So you can either keep throwing $$$ at the game or move on. Personally I wish theyd just be the good guys and fix their shit. TTK is just wrong on so many levels.

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                                    • I think the strategy was to make non TTKers so dissatisfied that they purchase the expansion in order to enjoy playing the game again.

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                                      • They have made it clear that nothing will be done about it. Not until the proper message is sent, and people are willing to take action. Join the Boycott of Bungie and Activision, make a stand for the future of the gaming industry.

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                                        • I don't like how they [i]took away[/i] content for non-TTK buyers. Bad move, just makes me think if that is also going to happen in the next expansion, and the next one....

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                                          • Edited by cbrstar: 10/30/2015 10:44:41 AM
                                            Bungie seriously shot themselves in the foot with this...If you are going to make something addictive, you have to keep your addicts on the hook. For example this game has been referred to the "SLOT MACHINE" of AAA games in regards to the behavioral science behind it.. Well slot machines are found in Casino's so to me a fair analogy would to look at how Casino's operate. To bring in customers and keep them there, Casino's have discounted or free alcohol and food. Spectacular shows and events, flashing lights etc lol They have cheap slot machines and tables, to give people a "Taste" of wining to get more and more addicted. The know the longer you stay there the more likely and more money you are going to gamble, why else do you think they also have cheap hotel rooms. Now what does this have to do with Destiny? Like any addiction, once you break it you will resist and try your hardest to never to never go back! By shunning Non-TTK players, they have essentially kicked them out of the casino. Instead of seeing all the bright lights, and people winning large sums of money, which makes you want to put in money and play. They shut the door and locked it. I know for myself, I don't know what single one of their new guns are nor do I even care anymore it's been that long since I played... But if I had an actual reason to log in, I'm sure I'd see one I'm jealous of, and I'd maybe break down and buy TTK. Or I'd be talking to my raid buddies and feel like I'm missing out.. But since being cut off cold turkey, I actually finding the idea of playing Destiny to be "disgusting" I see these little events like the "Festival of the lost" and I kinda laugh...Bungie wants to draw you in like a casino does, but they don't want to give you the free drinks, or cheap entertainment (Content) that goes with it.

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                                            • Your stats went down because they are no longer top tier gear. It would have no logic if a level 34 wearing level 20 armor could max out as many "stats" as a level 40 in level 40 armor. That one I can understand.

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                                              • Expansion content that dissappears out of thin air when a new DLC is out, is not what a player with common sense should aim. We do not ask to provide us for free any Y2 content- no L40 no Y2 gear or levels [b]( Although I know a hack to play several TTK levels for free without purchasing TTK see spoiler below)[/b] We want to keep PURCHASED TDB, HOW activities and Y1 currency and gear ... well ...ACTIVE. [spoiler]Just run a strike and before completing it at the end start running it backwards[/spoiler]

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                                                • Edited by Rmtrx: 10/30/2015 6:06:36 PM
                                                  I know a family in my neighborhood which has two sons which are twins. [b]I repeat it, they are twins.[/b] The first decided to buy TTK and still plays it. After one month of crazy grinding, smashing tables and his head to the wall from nerves because of the bad RNG, bulletsponge enemies, boring missions, microtransactions, continuous nerfing and buffing of items that forced him to play the game the way the developers wanted to, you can see the results of TTK toll onto his good looks (pic above) See below for the other one:

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