I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore. Will this go on until I admit nfs is generally speaking a good franchise? That's not going to happen. I agree project cars isn't very good. That's why I bought forza. Project cars is still more fun for me than any nfs game though. Video games are supposed to be fun but everyone has a different definition of fun. In a racing game I want awesome graphics, realistic physics, in depth tuning, and a large car list. I wouldn't pick up burnout paradise today as my tastes have changed. Don't you dare bash forza 4 by the way I have 2000 hours into that game haha.