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10/26/2015 4:04:24 AM
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You seriously think sexism goes one way?
So racism goes one way?
I have no struggle Nikita, I just like how you think you are doing a righteous thing about disallowing males into your group, instead of empowering equality for females you blatantly segregate yourself.
Either way I don't really care more power to make your own decisions. Was just curious what feministic things take place within your group.
#VAGINAPOWER
English
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Actually I was being quite serious at the same time. We play the game. Our intent is to build confidence in a group of players who have been historically stereotyped as having an inherent disadvantage. We want women to see that there are many kinds of women who play this game and have similar experiences. Past that they are encouraged to play amongst them selves and with anyone else they wish. Also I do not call myself a feminist and would not speak for our members on how they define their perspectives. Our shared female experience and love of destiny are our two agendas only. Categorical shunning of males and segregating ourselves is not something we encourage. As for equality, we have been asked to admit males but I cannot speak for their experiences so that would not be something I would do. Calling a male a sister would be a gendered noun mismatch and also not equal. So there's that too.
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I think that by definition, sexism and racism are acts of discrimination by privileged groups against non privileged groups. They are particular varieties of discrimination rooted in structural inequalities in society. That isn't the same as saying discrimination as whole cant go in any or all directions. If we were truly "segregating" ourselves, our members wouldn't belong to any other groups, not would they play with male players; neither of those are true. I like that you seem to think we can just "empower equality" through sheer force of wanting it to exist. If that were the case, we wouldn't face any structural inequalities, as no member of a target group wishes to experience them. Instead, I know it's a "righteous" thing to provide a safe space for women in Destiny - many of our members have spoken about the harassment they have experienced from male players simply for being female and their appreciation for knowing that will not happen in our community. If you want to help "empower equality" for women, please be an ally and focus your attention on the actions and behaviors that make a lot of spaces unsafe for female players. Calling us sexist and accusing us of doing something wrong by "self-segregating" certainly doesn't help move us forward as a gaming community.
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Just saying your definition of racism and sexism are wrong
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Just saying, I find that often to be the perspective of folks on the privileged side of the issue. Do you have any resources or references to back up your claim? Here are a few things that you might find interesting: http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/03/dictionary-definition-racism/ http://www.diversityinc.com/ask-the-white-guy/ask-the-white-guy-is-the-oxford-dictionary-definition-of-racism-too-white-for-you/ https://www.pcc.edu/resources/illumination/documents/race-and-racism-curriculum.pdf http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/07/15/884649/-Why-there-s-no-such-thing-as-Reverse-Racism http://racism.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=17&Itemid=120 http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2009/09/wonder-how-to-define-racism.html http://isreview.org/issue/91/black-feminism-and-intersectionality https://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/sexism-definition/ http://www.britannica.com/topic/sexism http://www.stemwomen.net/what-is-sexism/ http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/01/sexism-vs-prejudice/
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So you aren't stating facts... merely an assumption based on your own experiences?
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The Oxford dictionary would back my claims up
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How convenient - please read either of the first two articles I shared with you that address that very issue.
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Are these scholarly articles published in Academic Journals?
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Prejudice is one the of the three key words that define sexism and racism. Prejudice- preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
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Ahh, I see we're going to conveniently step around the references I've provided in favor of yours. Great way to hold an honest discussion. Although, I think even the OED might be headed in my direction: http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/177027?rskey=5T3il0&result=2#eid
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"...typically against women, on the basis of sex." If you mean this part, then you must also understand that this is not a definite clarification. Where sexism did arise from women suffrage experienced in England, we have progressed into more modern times. With the progression, we as a society, we can assume that equality has been reached, and that sexism now holds equal weight no matter the target.
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So as soon as females get equality sexism will cease to exist? I didn't walk around it i just pointed out that the word is defined by prejudice, as the definition stands you would be wrong.
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I think when systemic structures that give power and privilege any one sex over any other (including those folks who do not identify on the binary) are eradicated, not simply replaced with a different set of sex-based powers and privileges, then yes, we would be able to say that sexism has been rooted out. That would not mean that sex-based prejudice would cease to exist, as they are very different things. Additionally, yes, you entirely walked around it. Engaging with it would have meant taking time to read the references I provided, understand the perspective presented, and at the very least, provide some insight as to why you insist on remaining with your preferred definition - while I have no way of knowing if you've done the first two, you definitely have not done the third in this conversation. By choosing not to, and remaining with your own definition, it seems to me you are attempting to control this conversation and bias it in your favor. Your arguments only prevail if your definition prevails, and by not honestly engaging in consideration of the definition I've provided, you've shown that you're not interested in actual discussion, but "winning" the argument.
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Edited by AL_Qinaas: 10/26/2015 7:47:42 PMYou speak like you're on a podium. ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK.
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You speak like you're threatened by a woman who isn't afraid to speak her mind and doesn't feel the need to dumb herself down to conform to what you want her to be. LOUD NOISES, LOUD NOISES, LOUD NOISES.
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More assumptions.... You don't even know me. I've given you very little information to make yourself assume such a pathetic thought. You wouldn't know that I have started support groups for battered woman, or that I witnessed my mother in an oppressive relationship and fought hard and sturdy to get her out. You wouldn't know any of this because you are too busy defending your own agenda without knowing who is who and what they've been through. I think you need to step off your high horse and realize the world isn't against women. Yeah there are groups out there that would like nothing more than to see women in the kitchen or behind a sewing machine, but from my perspective I expect women to be independent and self sufficient. Take you wild assumptions and park them elsewhere.
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I still don't know any of those things, as asserting "facts" on a mostly anonymous forum isn't the same as proof (not that I'm asking for any). You don't think society systematically oppresses women, that's fine, you get to believe that. I get to believe differently, and I also get to express that belief.
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I go by the approved definition and only the approved definition, if that definition ever changes then yes I will agree with you but until then I can't, simply due to the fact the sexism at its current definition includes name calling and singling out of individuals based on their gender. Even stereotyping is placed under the definition of sexism and racism. How can one argue with the definition of a word? Can we just debate any definition and change it as we see fit?
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I just want to say that I've actually enjoyed reading this discussion between you two. Thanks a lot for the information. Hope to see you all in Destiny.
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"Approved" by who? You don't see the inherent power in creating an '"approved" definition - being able to decide what something does and does not include? An "approved definition" is inevitably based on the biases and interests of those creating it and is not in any way an objective process. This really does do a great job of addressing that very issue, please do take some time to read it: http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/03/dictionary-definition-racism/ To the point of debating definitions and change them as we see fit - we can, we do, and we have throughout history done exactly that. An innocuous example would be the word "cool". Original definition in regards to temperature, now also commonly used to describe something that's good and/or pleasing. If you pay any attention to the OED, since that seems to be your reference, you'll notice that even they are constantly updating their dictionary, not only adding new words as they come into common usage, but updating definitions as times change. Even the definition you referenced makes a point of noting how the definition has changed over time: "Originally: the state or condition of belonging to the male or female sex; categorization or reference on the basis of sex (now rare); (in later use) prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex." If it can have one meaning that's now rare, and another in later use, there is certainly room for continued change. Some of us are just getting there faster than others.
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I have no issues with the word changing at all, I have no issues with anything you are saying in regards of sexism. The only issue I have is the fact the current definition does not exclude based on the parameters that you are adding, if the dictionary definition changed to what you said and took all other words out that contradict it, then I will agree with you but until then the definition is the definition, no mater whether or not is morally right or even fair.
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It takes time to change the definition of a word, you can't just decide that you will change the definition and then tell everyone that that is how it is. We clearly have a process in place that allows us to come up with definitions of words, I mean going by your logic we are both right because screw official definitions right? Your definition cannot be held as the right definition until a change happens.
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Again, a process defined by who? Who controls the process controls the outcome. When the process is controlled by people with a particular lens, the outcome will reflect it. When you say it takes time, this definition of the words has been around for decades, so exactly how long should it take? I'm operating off of work done by a diverse body of the leading scholars and practitioners of social justice work; you're operating off a definition put forth by a group of white men. Think there might be some systemic reasons we disagree? Holding onto some "official definition" that is a reflection of the oppressive system that created it doesn't help move the world forward. You're welcome to hold on to whatever you want to hold on to, but at least recognize what it is you're holding on to in the process.
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You cannot correct someone on a definition when your definition is not correct. That is all I was saying, I'm not saying that we should hold onto the current definition im just saying you were wrong in this one instance of correcting someone
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My definition is only incorrect if you place all your faith in a definition created, promulgated, and maintained by an oppressive system. Saying we have to accept it because it's "official" is something I personally find morally unacceptable. However, if that's where you want to stand and argue your point, go right ahead. I think we've accomplished all we're going to here.
