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originally posted in: Sunbreaker is Too Strong w/proof
Edited by Lilrooster156: 10/8/2015 5:34:21 AM
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Text wall inbound. Okay you left some things out. You singled out Cauturize but forgot to mention that anything that starts health regen does it exactly the same way and at exactly the same rate. This means the Red Death perk, the perk on the Suros Regime, Hungering Blade, Life Steal Energy Drain, and orb pickup on helmets and Transfusion in the Striker tree start health regen and shield regen at same rate. Unless you want everything changed don't just mention Cauturize. You talked about duration and compared it to Golden Gun. Stormcaller duration is enough to kill you wait for you to respawn in Rift even when you have to wait to "Find a spawn location" and then be killed by the tail end of the super. This has happened to me more than a few times. You even showed Stormcaller duration when you killed the Sunbreaker and another guy them had time to go across mao and get a Stormbringer medal. Let's compare melee. I've killed people from Felwinters level range with Stormcaller melee without the perk that extends the range. Titan melee in any subclass sucks. On Stormcaller activation you get a mini Fist of Havoc. With the Titan if running sunspots we dont get an AOE on activation and the one we do isnt as leathal. If you're close enough to be burnt by the sunspot you're already going to die. I've done and seen Warlocks run up and activate super with Landfall and then start zapping. You were complaining about a Sunbreaker range. A Stormcaller doesn't even have to be in the same room. There have been several times when I haven't seen the Stormcaller and died to Stormtrance because of chaining. What about Nightstalker? Nightstalker has enhanced radar that shows exact location on your mini map and on your HUD even with the slightest bit of damage. Shadestep is blink 2.0 with no cool down. I can't count the amount of times I've been shadesteped shot gunned already. With quiver you get to activate super then run around while it counts down and whole it counts down you get to run around with whatever gun you chose until you use the other two shots. Nightstalker doesn't get DR while doing this? Neither does Golden Gun and it has no damage reduction. Gunslinger compared to Sunbreaker? Obviously duration is much different. Travel time to kill target based on range? Golden Gun: instantaneous. Sure has damage drop off now but unless you're trying to snipe someone across a map like First Light this doesn't come into play. The aim assist doesn't matter either because of the 0 travel time on the shot. Sunbreaker from the same range takes a couple seconds more then enough time to dodge it. Avoiding hammers compared Golden Gun shots? I'd rather try to dodge hammers then bullets. Hammers are super easy to avoid. You proved that when you zapped the Sunbreaker with Stormcaller. Sunsinger? Duration is also fairly long and doesn't go down with every grenade you throw or every time you melee. It doesn't have the same on hit kill capabilities of a hammer but the Sunsinger grenades are still pretty lethal even after the bolt grenades range nerf and the sticky grenade reduced tracking abilities. The overshield with a melee hit and not a kill (like a Defender needs) increases chances of survival in any fight if you get a melee. Everyone talks about a Bladedancer nerf but unless it was a ninja nerf or everyone is talking about when the reduced DR from 75% or whatever it was to 50% it didn't happen. There is nothing on the 2.0 patch notes. There was aspects like bolt range and sticky tracking is now less aggressive. Blink had its cool down slightly increased but not really enough to notice, I still get blink shotguned all over the place. These nerfs didn't just effect Bladedancers though. Any subclass with these abilities was hit. Bladedancer moves so much faster than a Sunbreaker it doesn't need to have any more damage reduction then it does. Titans can move fast in a straight line going around a corner is a lot harder. They are not more agile than a Hunter. Shotgun melee isn't in your favour unless you get the drop on them. It is almost always a trade from straight on if they decide it's a bad idea to Razors Edge you. If the Titan misses the Bladedancer with hammers especially in close quarters the Bladedancer wins. When compared to other supers and all the the subclass abilities they have the Sunbreaker isn't that overpowered. Of course if the only thing you're going to show is the duration compared to a Gunslinger and how long it last in 3v3 setting when you have no reason to throw hammers and actually use the super energy it looks bad. What about trials that's 3v3? The Sunbreaker has just as much potential to wipe a team as Bladedancer does. That Gunslinger does. That Sunsinger does. That Stormcaller does. If you want to prove that something is overpowered compare it to everything not just one aspect or abilty. That makes you look biased and salty (which you obviously are) I don't think it should be able to survive a Golden Gun shot. Sniper headshot shouldn't kill any super. That's stupid. What allows the Sunbreaker to survive these things is a chest armor piece with increased armor when using a solar subclass. Without it and just max armor spec in the subclass tree the Titan dies. These armor prices are not exclusive to Titans. I haven't tried it but I wonder if a full armor spec Sunsinger using Radiant Skin and the Ram with one of these armor pieces will make it able to survive these things. P.S. Forgot to mention Bloodbound in Nightstalker tree. Tether more then one target damage only one and kill whoever has been tethered because of shared damage with no reductions. So everyone tethered takes the same amount of damage as the guy you're shooting without ever having to hit them and everyone takes full damage. So you get a 96 damage headshot with Hawkmoon on one guy instead of this being divided by however many people are caught they all take 96 damage.
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  • Let's see Hmm Titans are the fastest class They get shoulder charge during their super They can get a roaming super which shouldn't happen if they are "tanks" Every hammer is a one shot They get 6 hammers Insta health regen on kill with any ability Let's try to kill them: Heavy machine gun nah Rockets nah Golden gun nah Sniper headshot lmao Fist of havoc lol ur funny try to get close Nova bomb u actually might have a chance Sword lol ur funny Raze lighters solar uppercut lmao u thought u can kill them with that dident u? Blade dancer? I prefer not to Shadowshot? At least I can stop it!!! Maybe if he doesn't see me Umm blink shotgun? Oh u can't one shot them anyways

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  • Edited by Lilrooster156: 10/8/2015 11:33:45 PM
    Okay shoulder charge during super? Takes about a third of the super. Is also a special perk on the tree. Titans are only the fastest if using increased control. Increase height is better. They can only go in a straight line cornering is difficult. Hunters are much better for moving quickly. So are Warlocks. Golden Gun is a one shot. Every swing of the Arcblade is a one shot. Sunsinger melee is a one shot. Direct hit with Shadowshot is a one hit. Trying to kill them? Machine guns? Easy happens all the time. Rocket Launchers? Easy happens all the time might have to use more then one rocket but that is required for Bladedancer and Sunsinger as well. Golden Gun? If they aren't using solar armor piece it's a one hit. Nova Bomb? Easy it's a ranged Fist of Havoc. Fist of Havoc? Not as easy but entirely possible. Stormcaller? Hammers are easy to evade especially when using Ionic Blink. Shadowshot? Happens so often its not even funny. It is easy to stop a Sunbreaker using Nightstalker. If you see each other at the same time and activate at the same time. Sunbreaker gets tethered and Nightstalker usually dies leaving the Titan tethered and in a vulnerable position. Bladedancer? In close quarters, especially if the Titan misses the Bladedancer can deal with a Sunbreaker easily. Unless it's a direct hit, which when trying to hit a blinking dashing target is not all that easy, I'd a two shot. Snipers? Much harder a headshot and a few shots with primary will do it. Or two headshots or three body shots. Teams hots? Happens all the time. I've done it with only one other person. So that was two people shooting the Sunbreaker and he went down without either of us dieing. Sword wouldn't work well with a Bladedancer or a Stormcaller either. Unless using Phoenix Uppercut which I've heard works on Sunbreakers as well.

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  • Arcblade isn't a one shot if you have any kind of shielding. That means flame shield, blessing of light, or barrier melee.

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  • Your also not likely to win without a super in that situation anyhow. If you melee a Bladedancer and get Flame Shield you stand a good chance of winning the fight. And that's if they decide not to Razors Edge you. Challenged a Defender in His bubble has never been a good idea. Barrier melee only stays active for a short time you also need a melee kill for it to activate not just a hit. So that means you already got into a fight and have low actual health. If you come upon a Bladedancer within the amount of time that Force Barrier is still up you probably don't have full health and are likely to die.

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  • Of course you'll lose that fight. I don't go in Wards. Smart players avoid them like the plague. Destiny isn't full of smart players though... And Barrier melee lasts between 10 and 20 seconds depending on perks and if you rock NBP. Razors Edge is extremely small and easy to strafe or full hop over, unless there's a low ceiling or you're in a tunnel, which is arcblader territory.

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  • Most Titans don't try and avoid things while in a bubble for some reason. I've run into maybe two that have tried to get away when realizing that I was about kill them with Fist of Havoc or something else.

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  • Bro I have a Titan and I survived a golden gun don't bs me

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  • Bro guess what? Me too. And also guess want? There is a video in this thread somewhere where the Titan got one shot by Golden Gun because he wasn't wearing a solar armor piece.

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  • Titans will die if they're using not maxed out armor. Having the armor gives them what they need, not the chest piece.

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  • Both. You'll survive a Golden Gun shot if you have maxed armor speced and a armor piece. One of those missing you'll die to it because it literally leaves you with .5 HP. Sniper a Titan can survive unless it's the spear or Black spindle with max armor and no chest piece.

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  • .5 HP is alive though, isn't it? It's not quite 0.

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  • One thing changed in the tree or a different piece of armor and you're dead. Sunbreaker shouldn't survive a Golden Gun shot. That is not something I agree with. Which I'm pretty sure I said.

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  • Lmao. The bad thing with posting a long smart reply, is you'll always make a few wrong points.

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  • Which ones? Point them out.

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  • Shadestep is so easy to counter. How is Shadestep OP?

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  • Edited by Lilrooster156: 10/8/2015 7:48:35 PM
    If you can keep focus on the Hunter and actually have space to go it's avoidable. Shadestep is better then most give it credit for. Yeah blink was super easy to counter to. If you had your own blink.

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  • I counter shadestep left and right man. I also get countered when using it, mainly by shotgunw.

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  • This doesn't change much. You could counter blink as well. I have avoided being shadesteped shotguned as well. Just can't do it every time.

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  • Ah but it doesn't take much to counter it.

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  • Edited by Lilrooster156: 10/9/2015 2:18:37 AM
    It's about as counterable as blink is/was. Gets more difficult if you're not running a shotgun.

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  • It's easier to counter than blink good sir. With blink the hunter or warlock is there one moment and gone the next. Shadestep on the other hand you can see where he is at and where he is going.

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  • Edited by Lilrooster156: 10/9/2015 1:26:12 PM
    No it is hard to track a shadesteping Hunter because they go invisible for a second then become visible 10 feet in whatever direction they went.

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  • Get good. They are easy to counter.

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  • Not easy as you think. It happened a lot when The Taken King first came out its calmed down some. Shadestep is better than you think it is. Sure it's easy to counter if you have a shotgun. Or if you see them and anticipate what they want to do. It also might be helpful if they didn't do it in close quarters. Shadestep isn't as far as Blink, it might not provide invincibility for a brief time, but it is still a great evade. It can be used aggressively if you know how obviously the Hunters I have run into do know how.

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  • Completely agree

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