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Edited by NathanW18:
10/8/2015 2:52:20 AM
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Well, you'd be right if you were talking about the bubble, but pretty much nobody uses it in PvP and rightly so. The whole point of Fist of Havoc was to shut down other supers. You're really off base on this point. No super really does a good job in shutting down Hammer of Sol. Well, except another Hammer of Sol.
Yeah, because balance matters in PvP. PvE balance isn't that important. Obviously people are not going to talk about it as much. The AI don't care how they die. The super will still be very good in PvE. Even if it is brought down a little bit.
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nova bomb and fist of havoc shut it down perfectly! also GG, when SB doesnt run max armor.
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Fist of Havoc can shut it down, but the chance of doing so isn't great. The super is poor. You need to be right next to him to do it. He can throw a hammer at you from 50 yards away and get a kill. Nova is a better counter. As you say, Golden Gun won't kill if he has max armour. There is no real reason not to use a full armour build as a Sunbreaker.
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With Death from Above you can close that gap pretty quickly and Unstoppable means you can tank a hammer while you're at it. Now that the Helm of Inmost Light can be acquired with useful stat rolls, this is more of an option than ever for Striker Titans.
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All fair points. My question to you would be, why would any Titan choose to use Striker over a Sunbreaker for PvP? The super has nowhere near the killing potential. The only good thing Striker has over it are Lightning Grenades. I expect the vast majority of Titan's to use Sunbreaker. At least Hammer of Sol counters itself quite well!
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In 6v6 or Rumble I would rather use Hammer of Sol but in Trials or Elimination, I still think Fist of Havoc is more useful, here's why... 1. With Unstoppable, Fist of Havoc can tank insane amounts of damage and still shut down opponent's supers. Nova Bomb is the only super in the game that is capable of one hitting this setup. 2. The fear factor. If the other team knows you have a Titan smash, they tend to be more reluctant to use their own supers. 3. Minimal risk/maximum reward when dealing with Defender Titans. Nothing shuts down the infinite super shenanigans faster than a well placed Fist of Havoc. Granted it doesn't happen often but I have seen people try it.
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All very good points. I know that I was way more apprehensive to use Arc Blade when a Striker was on the other team in Trials. I would still be far more afraid of a Sunbreaker than Striker in every playlist.
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[quote] PvE balance isn't that important.[/quote] This is the problem PvErs have with PvPrs. One aspect of the game should not dictate the other. This is not a PvP centered game.
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Unfortunately, it's going to do that. Whether the game is centred around PvE isn't really relevant. PvP is in the game, and for that reason, things should be fairly balanced to make it fair for all players.
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So PvErs are forced to adapt to changes due to PvP gripes? And you call that fair?
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Yes. Small nerfs to the subclass are not going to massively effect its usefulness in PvE, anyway.
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Assuming it gets nerfed in the way you think it will. Nonetheless, I find it funny that you have a clear bias.
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Edited by NathanW18: 10/9/2015 10:36:38 AMA bias towards what? PvP or against Titan's? PvE is what I predominately bought Destiny for, but it gets boring after the content has been done countless times. I go into PvP, because I enjoy this more when PvE content gets stale. If a game has PvP in it, the weapons and mechanics should be balanced around it. If not, I don't see the point in having PvP in the game. I know Bungie has a massive job trying to balance a looter shooter game, that rewards players with RNG loot and classes that behave massively different to each other. I think they can do it. If you mean I'm biased against the new Titan subclass, I don't know why. If you inspect my profile, you will see I have each one and have played each one for countless hours. I have spent the majority of my time in PvP over the last couple weeks using the Stormcaller and Sunbreaker. Both are very strong, but Stormtrance has obvious negatives. You can't regen health and it has the same amount of damage reduction as Arc Blade and Radiance. Hammer of Sol has ranged hammers. Tracking. Health regen. A long time limit. High damage resistance. No other super has this many positives and no real negatives.
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Edited by Komodo Laggen: 10/9/2015 1:46:12 PMYou have a bias towards PvP. You think its just to make changes around one activity without any care for the other. Remember when the SWAG Regime became the SAD Regime because of the bitching of PvP players. It was a favorite of many PvErs and overnight was useless. Thats one of many examples. You have to remember a lot of players play only PvE. They don't care about the monotony. People like you and me, we do both. Only difference is i'm not selfish with my suggestions. I don't really care how you think the Sunbreaker will be nerfed because chances are Bungie will make their own changes. It won't bother me much I mostly play hunter this DLC. As for the Sunbreaker itself, its strong, lots of positives when using its super. But most all its perks are around its super. It doesn't really have much going for it besides that. I personally am not enamored with it. I mostly use striker in PvP. But I do notice when I do use it, that all of these complaints that people have are all possible because of players who prioritize armor. I focus on agility so i've never taken a GG shot and have been sniper headshot killed in super. But the increased armor makes it a dominating force. Which I like. I don't think you should be able to just bumrush someone in super and oneshot them with a shotgun. Snipers are whatever. Thats why bladedancer is so useless now. People seem to forget, its a [b]super[/b]. Its going to be powerful. Maybe people would be happier if we had a superless gametype. Who knows. Oh well.
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Edited by NathanW18: 10/10/2015 6:55:23 PMYou can't blame PvP'ers on Bungie's overnerf of auto rifles. That was their fault. Autos were too strong on launch. The lead sandbox designer at Bungie admitted that himself. Suros was the biggest problem, because there was no negative to using the gun. Nothing in the game should be good in every scenario. Bungie will also not nerf something, just because some people asked for it. They have the data to show what isn't how it should be. I know a lot of players only play PvE. Balance in PvE isn't really a problem. Unless a weapon like Gjallarhorn exists. If something is a bit too strong here, it's not a massive problem. If those issues start to make their way into PvP, it starts to become a bigger problem. I have no bias toward PvP. I play both. I enjoy both, but I understand that balance is more important in PvP than PvE. It also has nothing to do with being selfish. I do agree that pretty much the whole skill tree is based around the super. That is the only point that I will accept in the super being kept how it is. No shotgun shot on its own can kill a super, apart from Golden Gun. This is balanced, due to Golden Gun being able to kill from 100 yards away. Every other super has damage resistance, which allows them to take a shot and live. Every super dies to a high impact sniper headshot, expect Hammer of Sol. I don't understand why this is fair. I know it's a super. It's supposed to be strong, but it's better than every other super. It has no weaknesses and only strengths. As I said before, I think the only valid reason for leaving it the same is that the skill tree is only really based around making the super stronger. I still believe it deserves some small changes.
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Bubble with Weapons is Body shot sniper kills :D
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It is, but what I said is still true. You will pretty much never see anybody running a Defender. The bubble is countered by everything, so why would you bother?
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Why don't they just make the other classes just as strong as hammer of sol when super is active or in use. Everything always has to be nerfed or watered down. If hammer survives 1 golden gun then Golden gun survives 1 hammer. Nova bomb dominates no matter what and blade dancer is good already. just buff up the health when super is active, i mean, your "super charged" for a reason. So it should show it. More health when super is active.
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Buffing everything isn't the answer. Power creep becomes an issue. Anything new added to the game will have to be as good or better for it to be viable to the playerbase. Nerfing one thing is easier (and makes more sense balance wise) than buffing everything else. The other supers are decently balanced. They all have positives and negative points. The Sunbreaker has no current negative. It's good at everything.
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It does have some negatives, but its hard to point put because its so good. Like this one When starting up Hammer time, you foo have to aim a good distance for your projectile to reach its intended target BUT when you have the perk that allows hammers to track enemies it does give it an "overpowered" move A lot of titans use health regeneration BUT one shot can cancel the regen at any point given It is more likely to run away from a sun breaker than a blade dancer BUT that titan can be running full agility and tracking hammers and suncharge I honestly believe that tracking hammers should not be added and hopefully they can replace it with something else that helps more with the titan rather than the super. Like increased aim or idk something of that matter. just not as powerful as tracking. But lets also pray they don't make Hammer contact points as hard as Call of duty modern warfare 2 throwing knives. cause that was ridiculous. See why can't we have conversations like this with other people, calm and reasonable
