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#feedback

Edited by Malphisto: 10/3/2015 2:41:52 AM
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INNOVATION vs. OBSOLESCENCE... (The Big One)

Since the very beginning of Destiny, player feedback from both sides of the fence has always had the same intended goal behind it. To improve and expand the experience. To stretch the realm of possibility and test the limits of human creativity. [b]FOR THIS WAS THE HOPE WE ALL WANTED TO BELIEVE IN![/b] The endless potential of what we all saw back in 2013. However, Bungie... Such has not been the case, has it? This post has been in the making for several months now, and each time I keep going back and amending it. Contemplating it. Reflecting upon my own thoughts. And now here I present to you the fruit of my labor... Currently, as has been the continued trend for this game, Destiny has followed a mentality of obsolescence: rendering previous content or features obsolete in favor of new replacements. [b]-Weapons (Year 1 Legendary / Exotic, Replaced with Year 2 Weapons) -Armor (Year 1 Legendary / Exotic, Replaced with Year 2 Armor) -Raids (Vault of Glass / Crota's End, Replaced with King's Fall) -Events (Hive Sword Bearers / Wolf Packs, Replaced with The Taken) -PvE Arena (Prison of Elders, Replaced with Court of Oryx)[/b] It is [b]NOT A QUESTION[/b] of whether or not the Year 2 replacements are better by comparison, but rather the act of manually engineering the previous content to have its value removed in order to promote continued progression that is [b]FORCED[/b] upon the community instead of allowing it to be freely chosen. Much in the same way that the paywalls imposed upon non-TTK buyers is an attempt in itself to strong arm people into paying for something just so they can continue doing the things that were previously available to them. (Even back when the last two DLCs didn't do this) Planned Obsolescence does absolutely nothing for anyone. It doesn't promote time investment. It doesn't encourage people to spend money on the product. It doesn't advocate MORE CONTENT because its essentially keeping the same amount of content that was originally there to begin with. The Taken King is thought to be an improvement, and yet its only $20 less than [i]Vanilla Destiny[/i] which gave us... [b]-The Tower (Social Hub) -Old Russia, Earth (Open World Area) -Sea of Storms, Moon (Open World Area) -Ishtar Sink, Venus (Open World Area) -Meridian Bay, Mars (Open World Area) -22 Story Missions -6 Strikes -1 Raid (Vault of Glass) -11 Crucible Maps -6 PvP Game Modes (Skirmish, Clash, Rumble, Control, Combined Arms and Salvage)[/b] Ignoring the travesty that was Dark Below and the now pointless House of Wolves DLC, both of which total the cost of the new expansion? Let us now compare what The Taken King is offering... [b]-New Subclass -The Dreadnought (Open World Area, [i]Court of Oryx[/i] replaces Public Events for this location) -8 [i]"[u]STORY[/u]"[/i] Missions -4 Strikes -1 Raid (King's Fall) -8 Crucible Maps -2 PvP Game Modes (Rift and Mayhem)[/b] Now, I won't get into another discussion about my thoughts regarding TTK. That isn't the point of this post. Pricing and all the other stuff aside. [i]You would think this is an actual injection of more content for Destiny.[/i] However, the big problem here is that with TTK, you are also [b]LOSING CONTENT[/b] as well because it no longer has any value. So after getting all that out of the way... [b]INNOVATION IS THE ANSWER.[/b] Think about it. What REALLY made anyone even the slightest bit interested in TTK to begin with? Obviously wasn't the lackluster amount of content, to be sure. No, of course not. Its the innovations that are presented with it. [b]-Ghost Scanning -Triggered Events -Quest System -New Abilities (Subclasses) -New Weapon Type (Swords) -Better Level Design (Less Horde Modes, More Action)[/b] Innovation should always be your only concern and point of focus. Everything should have relevancy. If you want to create a game that can stand the test of time and grow into a beloved franchise like what you had with Halo, it is only possible if you continue to evolve. [b]GEAR MODIFICATION:[/b] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdAWcizd1WY Concerning the matter of Year 1 Legendary and Exotic Gear being left behind. This decision not only rendered a large chunk of content worthless, it also invalidated the amount of time players invested into getting them. Destiny centers largely around grinding activities over and over to acquire more powerful loot. As such, all loot should serve a purpose and maintain a sense of value. There are plenty of ways to go about doing this. One such method is to implement a Gear Modification as another option to simply dismantling. In doing so, weapons can be broken down into actual distinctive parts. (Barrel, Muzzle, Grip, Clip, Sight, etc.) From here, you can likewise work this concept into a couple methods. "[i][u]Weapon Customization[/u][/i]"- Combining these parts together to create unique weapons personalized in both appearance, attributes and perks to suit each player's style. "[i][u]Weapon Crafting[/u][/i]"- Combining various weapons together to create new ones that can ONLY BE ACQUIRED through crafting. [b]-Fatebringer (Year 1) + Word of Crota (Year 1) = Dawn Caller (Crafted ONLY Year 2 Legendary Hand Cannon) -Dawn Caller (Year 2) + Evangeline (Year 3 Hand Cannon) = Death Penalty (Crafted ONLY Year 3 Legendary Hand Cannon) -Fatebringer (Year 1) + Remorse (Year 3 Raid Hand Cannon) = THE DEVIL YOU WANT (Crafted ONLY Year 4 Legendary Hand Cannon)[/b] Notice the natural progression without sacrificing relevancy? This same system can also be used for Armor as well. [b]UNRESTRICTED INFUSION:[/b] https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/150515526/0/0 Myself and others have made this point plenty of times and will continue to do so until we actually see something done about it. I won't get into the full argument here and instead simply refer you to this link for more details. Basically, it boils down to the fact that many folks love their old weapons and armor for various reasons and Infusion is really just a wasted opportunity as is. [b]#INFUSIONFORALL[/b] [b]ELIMINATING LIGHT LEVEL:[/b] Its really just holding the game back at this point. It obviously didn't change, your character level is now just basically your "Equip Level" while Light itself still works the exact same way of determining your overall offense and defense during combat. The whole thing needs to be scraped and the Level System entirely re-evaluated. And it goes without saying that requiring players to purchase DLC in order to keep raising their level is going to drive more people away from the game, not actually encourage them to stick around. I figured that was just common sense, really. [b]NEW WEAPONS:[/b] The notion of rendering older weapons obsolete to "make room" for new ones is really just an old hat and flawed notion that some developers just can't seem to wrap their minds around. In an interview, DeeJ makes mention that there would be a "Year 2 equivalent for Fatebringer" which means you're knowingly getting rid of older weapons JUST to make new replacements. Again, this is a textbook case of planned obsolescence. Instead of making how many different versions to replace a single weapon, wouldn't it make more sense if you just KEEP that original weapon and instead focus on designing NEW TYPES of weapons? You've already done it twice now with Sidearms and Swords. Not only does this expand player variety but also opens up the door to endless possibilities. [b]-SMG -GNL (Grenade Launcher) -Laser Cannon (Similar to the Spartan Laser from Halo) -Energy Bow (Longbows that release Charged Arrows) -Tower Shield (Similar to the Cabal Shields) -MORE MELEE WEAPONS... (Axes, Claws, Whips, etc. Each of these weapons have their own characteristics and uses)[/b] Anyways, I could easily go on and on with all manner of ideas. You are only limited by your own imagination. New PvP Game Modes. CLAN ONLY ACTIVITIES AND CONTENT. Overhauling Year 1 Content. Adding NEW VERSIONS of previous Endgame Content with new rewards. SPACE/AERIAL COMBAT. Sparrow Racing. Player Trading. Player Housing. OPENING UP THE CITY FOR EXPLORATION. More Social Features. New Mechanics. (Zero Gravity Environments for "[i]Unreal Tournament[/i]" style fighting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhTtPYo1tww ) [b]INNOVATION BEATS OBSOLESCENCE ALWAYS. PERIOD.[/b]

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  • Kind of how MMOs work. It's the business model, you need new gear to do the new content. Old gear is still perfectly viable in crucible when it's normalized. Sad that you'll get owned in iron banner, too bad.

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    • Also trading would ruin the game

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    • Another good post , will fall on def ears again i am afraid. The 10 year plan is probably the thing that holds this game back in a big way. They are only moving ahead all the time, never look back is a credo that hangs on the wall at Bungie. They expect you to do the same ,dont look back embrace the future. The future is a lonely one if they continue like this, what a waste. Good effort though, like your posts. Cheers

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    • Very well put and thought out. Bungie should seek your employment! We would all be better off.

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    • Bump

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    • Edited by BIGL23187: 9/30/2015 2:44:53 PM
      Good post. I would like to add that it would have been relatively easy for them to update all raids and poe with new gear levels to compete with the new light levels. But since they implement strong arm tactics there are no reason to do so. Instead of update, remove and sell something new. They really showed their true colors. The direction they are going with this company is ruthless and unfair to the consumer. All my bitching would be gone if they just started this game truthfully. Let everyone just pay monthly fees like they intended. Them lying and covering up what they do is ridiculous. I will continue the fight against them until I die or quit gaming.

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      • I'm curious to see if the book "The psychology of an addicted video game player" ever comes out. By the ever so famous, John Hopson, of course. I really would like to know his interests in such a venture. It has to be more then "I like games and I want to work for Bungie". What is the agenda he is fulfilling? He's prominent in the ethical scene of Behaviorism. So I wonder what he hopes to accomplish with a group of people who tend to exploit it? He has to be looking for facts here.

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        • BUMP BUMP BUMp so much potential so little used

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        • *standing ovation* Well done guardian, well done!

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          • Edited by INIAIRIOIMI: 9/29/2015 11:45:30 PM
            I'm still confused by the fact; no class specific weapon until TTK, seriously! Taking that one class specific weapon and mark through all the years, a ship AND speeder (speeder racing sounds FUN!) to customise with parts continuously through the years. Forget housing, we want a ships hull and quarters, it's Destiny, right? This type of thing keeps us grinding, get a grip Bungie.

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          • What's wrong with extending the character level cap with Expansions/DLCs? I'd what it to be a considerable increase each time. e.g 20 levels And not want to see the XP/REP be Dammed up because BUNGIE will think we get to the next level too quickly. Reputation gains shouldn't be nerfed or too heavily restricted because what's wrong with us collecting care packages regularly.

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            • Well written.

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              • Edited by NeuroticNarwhal: 4/7/2016 4:33:06 AM
                I think BungieVision vastly prefers to use the stick over the carrot, unfortunately. After all, why bother incentivizing with features you have to spend time and money to develop, when you can punish people for not being early adopters of new content by implementing artbitrary, bullshit lockout strategies, which cost virtually nothing?

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                • Bump. Excellent post.

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                • I wish you worked for bungie

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                  • This was pleasant to read. All of this makes sense especially the crafting part, it'll give an incentive to play old content. I wouldn't reommend anyone to buy vanilla Destiny now tbh.

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                    • Edited by KrazyM82: 9/29/2015 3:35:50 PM
                      Ya know...I just thought of something...while you were speaking and making sense about innovation...back at bungie headquarters... All harold ryan, deej and cozmo heard was dui hbhh vgh hj vvhbbbh h jhgjjh jjgjv h h gg ohgd vhjjcfdh hhcfyuikhbc ddyhvvd hgxcvhd ghx gfxj jgcj (Once the ferengi translators are fixed they realize) There is no profit in this! http://memecrunch.com/meme/RB6G/profit/image.jpg

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                      • Edited by Senor Crouch: 9/29/2015 7:21:46 AM
                        What the Community sees: "Innovation vs. Obsolescence... (The Big One)" What Bungie sees: "More Cost vs. Less Cost... (Choice Is Easy)" Well thought out post, though. I'm for this.

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                        • I agree with everything you stated except for scrapping the light system. The light system now is much smoother than the old one. Not only that, but it replicates other loot games with gear ratings such as torchlight, Diablo, WoW, you get the point. This type of games character progression is based on gear. The stronger the gear the more progression. The problem in my opinion isn't the system itself, but lack of build paths at the top end of the gear spectrum. There simply isn't enough, perks, weapons, armor, sights, or what have you to actually see any difference in play styles from players. That is the major fault in the game. Lack of choices. Everyone feels the same.

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                          • 100% bump. Wonder how much will be obsolete by year 3. Hell, i wonder how much content will be rehashed or reskinned for that expansion....

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                            • Edited by DeusFever: 9/29/2015 11:49:51 PM
                              All of Bungie's talk about level being based on experience and not light was a ruse. Level is based on light level just like it was in Year 1 only now you have to grind much, much more to reach the max light level. And once again, the raid gear trumps all. #INFUSIONFORALL is important because making Year 1 gear obsolete makes the mission rewards pointless.

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                              • Bump

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                              • Preach bro Preach the new system sucks

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                              • Join my group Destiny Disappointment. I think we should ban together and file a class action lawsuit for false advertisement

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                              • Pretty much your best post yet. You left out all the vitriolic attacks and focused on constructive criticism. Well done, sir!

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                                • Edited by Spoooo0000ky: 9/29/2015 2:44:14 AM
                                  You forgot one thing: [i]beards[/i]. I may not agree with [i]all[/i] of your points, but your suggestions for innovative additions to the game are [b]top shelf.[/b] Bump.

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