JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

#feedback

Edited by Malphisto: 10/3/2015 2:41:52 AM
229

INNOVATION vs. OBSOLESCENCE... (The Big One)

Since the very beginning of Destiny, player feedback from both sides of the fence has always had the same intended goal behind it. To improve and expand the experience. To stretch the realm of possibility and test the limits of human creativity. [b]FOR THIS WAS THE HOPE WE ALL WANTED TO BELIEVE IN![/b] The endless potential of what we all saw back in 2013. However, Bungie... Such has not been the case, has it? This post has been in the making for several months now, and each time I keep going back and amending it. Contemplating it. Reflecting upon my own thoughts. And now here I present to you the fruit of my labor... Currently, as has been the continued trend for this game, Destiny has followed a mentality of obsolescence: rendering previous content or features obsolete in favor of new replacements. [b]-Weapons (Year 1 Legendary / Exotic, Replaced with Year 2 Weapons) -Armor (Year 1 Legendary / Exotic, Replaced with Year 2 Armor) -Raids (Vault of Glass / Crota's End, Replaced with King's Fall) -Events (Hive Sword Bearers / Wolf Packs, Replaced with The Taken) -PvE Arena (Prison of Elders, Replaced with Court of Oryx)[/b] It is [b]NOT A QUESTION[/b] of whether or not the Year 2 replacements are better by comparison, but rather the act of manually engineering the previous content to have its value removed in order to promote continued progression that is [b]FORCED[/b] upon the community instead of allowing it to be freely chosen. Much in the same way that the paywalls imposed upon non-TTK buyers is an attempt in itself to strong arm people into paying for something just so they can continue doing the things that were previously available to them. (Even back when the last two DLCs didn't do this) Planned Obsolescence does absolutely nothing for anyone. It doesn't promote time investment. It doesn't encourage people to spend money on the product. It doesn't advocate MORE CONTENT because its essentially keeping the same amount of content that was originally there to begin with. The Taken King is thought to be an improvement, and yet its only $20 less than [i]Vanilla Destiny[/i] which gave us... [b]-The Tower (Social Hub) -Old Russia, Earth (Open World Area) -Sea of Storms, Moon (Open World Area) -Ishtar Sink, Venus (Open World Area) -Meridian Bay, Mars (Open World Area) -22 Story Missions -6 Strikes -1 Raid (Vault of Glass) -11 Crucible Maps -6 PvP Game Modes (Skirmish, Clash, Rumble, Control, Combined Arms and Salvage)[/b] Ignoring the travesty that was Dark Below and the now pointless House of Wolves DLC, both of which total the cost of the new expansion? Let us now compare what The Taken King is offering... [b]-New Subclass -The Dreadnought (Open World Area, [i]Court of Oryx[/i] replaces Public Events for this location) -8 [i]"[u]STORY[/u]"[/i] Missions -4 Strikes -1 Raid (King's Fall) -8 Crucible Maps -2 PvP Game Modes (Rift and Mayhem)[/b] Now, I won't get into another discussion about my thoughts regarding TTK. That isn't the point of this post. Pricing and all the other stuff aside. [i]You would think this is an actual injection of more content for Destiny.[/i] However, the big problem here is that with TTK, you are also [b]LOSING CONTENT[/b] as well because it no longer has any value. So after getting all that out of the way... [b]INNOVATION IS THE ANSWER.[/b] Think about it. What REALLY made anyone even the slightest bit interested in TTK to begin with? Obviously wasn't the lackluster amount of content, to be sure. No, of course not. Its the innovations that are presented with it. [b]-Ghost Scanning -Triggered Events -Quest System -New Abilities (Subclasses) -New Weapon Type (Swords) -Better Level Design (Less Horde Modes, More Action)[/b] Innovation should always be your only concern and point of focus. Everything should have relevancy. If you want to create a game that can stand the test of time and grow into a beloved franchise like what you had with Halo, it is only possible if you continue to evolve. [b]GEAR MODIFICATION:[/b] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdAWcizd1WY Concerning the matter of Year 1 Legendary and Exotic Gear being left behind. This decision not only rendered a large chunk of content worthless, it also invalidated the amount of time players invested into getting them. Destiny centers largely around grinding activities over and over to acquire more powerful loot. As such, all loot should serve a purpose and maintain a sense of value. There are plenty of ways to go about doing this. One such method is to implement a Gear Modification as another option to simply dismantling. In doing so, weapons can be broken down into actual distinctive parts. (Barrel, Muzzle, Grip, Clip, Sight, etc.) From here, you can likewise work this concept into a couple methods. "[i][u]Weapon Customization[/u][/i]"- Combining these parts together to create unique weapons personalized in both appearance, attributes and perks to suit each player's style. "[i][u]Weapon Crafting[/u][/i]"- Combining various weapons together to create new ones that can ONLY BE ACQUIRED through crafting. [b]-Fatebringer (Year 1) + Word of Crota (Year 1) = Dawn Caller (Crafted ONLY Year 2 Legendary Hand Cannon) -Dawn Caller (Year 2) + Evangeline (Year 3 Hand Cannon) = Death Penalty (Crafted ONLY Year 3 Legendary Hand Cannon) -Fatebringer (Year 1) + Remorse (Year 3 Raid Hand Cannon) = THE DEVIL YOU WANT (Crafted ONLY Year 4 Legendary Hand Cannon)[/b] Notice the natural progression without sacrificing relevancy? This same system can also be used for Armor as well. [b]UNRESTRICTED INFUSION:[/b] https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/150515526/0/0 Myself and others have made this point plenty of times and will continue to do so until we actually see something done about it. I won't get into the full argument here and instead simply refer you to this link for more details. Basically, it boils down to the fact that many folks love their old weapons and armor for various reasons and Infusion is really just a wasted opportunity as is. [b]#INFUSIONFORALL[/b] [b]ELIMINATING LIGHT LEVEL:[/b] Its really just holding the game back at this point. It obviously didn't change, your character level is now just basically your "Equip Level" while Light itself still works the exact same way of determining your overall offense and defense during combat. The whole thing needs to be scraped and the Level System entirely re-evaluated. And it goes without saying that requiring players to purchase DLC in order to keep raising their level is going to drive more people away from the game, not actually encourage them to stick around. I figured that was just common sense, really. [b]NEW WEAPONS:[/b] The notion of rendering older weapons obsolete to "make room" for new ones is really just an old hat and flawed notion that some developers just can't seem to wrap their minds around. In an interview, DeeJ makes mention that there would be a "Year 2 equivalent for Fatebringer" which means you're knowingly getting rid of older weapons JUST to make new replacements. Again, this is a textbook case of planned obsolescence. Instead of making how many different versions to replace a single weapon, wouldn't it make more sense if you just KEEP that original weapon and instead focus on designing NEW TYPES of weapons? You've already done it twice now with Sidearms and Swords. Not only does this expand player variety but also opens up the door to endless possibilities. [b]-SMG -GNL (Grenade Launcher) -Laser Cannon (Similar to the Spartan Laser from Halo) -Energy Bow (Longbows that release Charged Arrows) -Tower Shield (Similar to the Cabal Shields) -MORE MELEE WEAPONS... (Axes, Claws, Whips, etc. Each of these weapons have their own characteristics and uses)[/b] Anyways, I could easily go on and on with all manner of ideas. You are only limited by your own imagination. New PvP Game Modes. CLAN ONLY ACTIVITIES AND CONTENT. Overhauling Year 1 Content. Adding NEW VERSIONS of previous Endgame Content with new rewards. SPACE/AERIAL COMBAT. Sparrow Racing. Player Trading. Player Housing. OPENING UP THE CITY FOR EXPLORATION. More Social Features. New Mechanics. (Zero Gravity Environments for "[i]Unreal Tournament[/i]" style fighting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhTtPYo1tww ) [b]INNOVATION BEATS OBSOLESCENCE ALWAYS. PERIOD.[/b]

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • It's alive Igor...it's ALIVE!!

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • bumP

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • BuMp

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • B to the U to the M to the mutha funkin P!

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Bump ;)

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • B U M P

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Bump

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • BUMP

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Aka: bump

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • [b][i]B[/i][/b] [b][i]U[/i][/b] [b][i]M[/i][/b] [b][i]P[/i][/b]

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I was reading this again this morning. I think this comment in particular strikes a nerve It is NOT A QUESTION of whether or not the Year 2 replacements are better by comparison, but rather the act of manually engineering the previous content to have its value removed in order to promote continued progression that is FORCED upon the community instead of allowing it to be freely chosen

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    1 Reply
    • Extra bump for excellent ideas

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Bizzy bump

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Lets Bump this thread to bring the actual flaw in Destiny

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Necro BUMP!!

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Bump again.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Bumpity, Bumity, Bump!!

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Bump

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Bump

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Edited by Knight Yorgh: 9/28/2015 4:59:07 AM
      *...DeeJ read, appalled.* "Innovation? How is this not innovation? [b][i]Did you not even see our Red Bull commercials?!"[/i][/b] *In a brisk fury, DeeJ knocks the folders on his desk to the ground. A few papers spill out of them - plans for DLC # 78, 'House of Wolves: Redux' are seen.* "Destiny is all [b]about[/b] innovation! How else do we roll out our bi-annual weapon balances? How else do we find new ways to use the same assests? It's ground-breaking! No other game has ever been able to sell so many copies of DLC without actually adding anything new! When you played The Dark Below, [i]I bet you all didn't even notice they were the same areas with the same enemies![/i] [i][b]Innovation, I tell you!"[/b][/i] *DeeJ stands up and gets out of his armchair, the insides of which lined with $100 bills. He cracks open his diamond-encrusted refrigerator to grab a Red Bull.* "Sigh... When will they understand? It's not about the money. It's never been about the money." *A notification pops up on his laptop - he now owns the entirety of Hawaii* "It has always been about the customer's experience. I really do understand what they want... Missions played backwards, reskinned enemies, Sony exclusives... So why do they hate me? Every Weekly Update I try to make this crystal clear. We [b]want[/b] your feedback, as long as it totally agrees with what we've been doing all along and isn't negative in any way! Is that too much to ask?" "...Hmph. And now they accuse us of "cutting content"? "Planned Obsolescence"? Please. Nobody is forcing you to lose all your weapons and progress that you've achieved over the last year. You can still use it! Sure, it's completely useless and will never do you any good. But at least it's still there, right? We're not [b]forcing[/b] you to purchase more DLC! You can re-run Vault of Glass and Crota's End 50 more times if you'd like! That's an [b]option[/b] for you. Even though I've barely ever completed them once, I'm sure consumers would love replaying the content!" *DeeJ finishes his Red Bull, and tosses it into his Sony(™) brand trash can.* "Greedy little bastards. They spend $100, and all of a sudden they think they own the game. Ha! Nerds." *DeeJ hops onto his solid-gold skateboard, and a pair of sunglasses fly onto his face. Led Zeppelin (literally the band Led Zeppelin) is seen playing 'Immigrant Song' in the foreground* [i][b]"DeeJ, Out!"[/b][/i]

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      20 Replies
      • Edited by shhh iz bananas: 10/17/2015 7:01:10 PM
        Great ideas! I'm gonna have to read some of your old posts to catch up.:)

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        1 Reply
        • Bump it...bump bump it up!

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          3 Replies
          • Keep the pressure on 'em, man.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • Edited by CRiSiS_Kill_JaCK: 10/1/2015 1:49:13 PM
            My thoughts... Destiny got a mediocre metscore on release... that metascore is far more favourable now signifying that Bungie has listened to its critics and done something to improve things. I waited for TK before going in because EVERY MMO IN HISTORY has gone through an initial phase of stabilisation before the metagame has settled into something stable. The so called paywall is nothing of the sort. Its a matter of choice whether you buy or not, and whilst I appreciate you may be sore about hard won gear losing its edge dont forget that every Warcraft expansion has rendered the previous expansions gear as obsolete on a very regular cycle . That is the price paid for progression. as the level cap rises gear will become obsolete in the metagame. thats just a fact. additionally it is your opinion that this expansion renders large amounts of content worthless. I bought the game and am playing all the previous expansions and loving them. The yearly cost in the UK of playing Warcraft is just ove £100 per year, they still stiff their whole community for the price of expansions on top of the subs cost so you could say that the actual cost is more like £130-£140 a year. so Destiny costs are favourably comparable in my opinion. You talk of eliminating light levels! and replace them with what? All MMO's need a progression dynamic of they become stagnant and stale very quickly when the level cap is hit. on any MMO once you max your level you go to rep grinding or direct gear grinding or whatever it is that gives you a feeling of progression. With respect your making the same mistake as other passionate people, you seem to feel you own the game you play and anyone making changes to it is messing with your stuff... you dont own Destiny, Bungie do and they sell access to new content for profit. read your EULA you dont own the game or content but are licenced to play it... Finally you say "requiring players to purchase DLC in order to keep raising their level is going to drive more people away from the game, not actually encourage them to stick around". This statement is oxymoronic. how can you raise a level cap without investment? More content costs more money ergo you need to charge for it... that is capitalism. I think your very passionate about the game and I applaud that. I also think you have to be a little more realistic in terms of what is possible for Bungie from a business perspective. One question have you or are you going to buy TTK?....

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            9 Replies
            • TL;DR

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              3 Replies
              • Bungie should hire you. These ideas are incredible.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                2 Replies
                1 2 3 4 5 6 7
                You are not allowed to view this content.
                ;
                preload icon
                preload icon
                preload icon